Recording Live band with Rode NTG-2 & SM57 at DVinfo.net

Tim Bickford · January 21st, 2008, 01:06 PM

I just ordered a Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone from B&H last week. I hope to get it today. I plan on shooting some video (with XL2) of a live band this Friday and could use some advice.

My plan is to shoot with the XL2 using the on-board (stock) stereo mic while simultaneously recording the audio in stereo with my Zoom-H4 digital recorder. I planed on using a SM57 for one input and the new Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone for the other. I was planning on setting the mics in front of each of the two PA speakers.

Never having used the Rode NTG-2 - Shotgun Condenser Microphone before I'm in need of some advice on how to get the best audio capture in combination with the SM57 with Zoom H4

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tim Bickford

Steve House · January 21st, 2008, 02:34 PM

There's a major flaw in your strategy, Tim. For good stereo results, the left and right channels need to be recorded with identical microphones or at least microphones with very similar characteristics. The SM57 is a cardioid pattern dynamic mic while the Rode is a shotgun pattern condensor mic. Two very different sounding microphones - both excellent mics but intended for very different purposes. Shotguns have their uses in recording bands when used in multi-mic arrangments to pick out and isolate instruments or vocalists from the mix but are not so useful as one of the mics in a stereo array because they're simply too directional. Another caution is the Rode is fairly sensitive so there's a danger of overloading it if placed right in front of a PA speaker. So there really isn't an answer to your question as there simply isn't an arrangement of the Rode and the Shure that together will give a good stereo soundstage.

Tim Bickford · January 21st, 2008, 03:35 PM

Steve,

Thanks... looks like I have a lot to learn about audio. I'll use two SM-57's and leave the Rode NTG-2 at home.

I appreciate your advice!

Allen Plowman · January 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM

are the two PA speakers in stereo? the band may have the same sound from both speakers.

Tim Bickford · January 21st, 2008, 05:08 PM

Most likely in mono. Perhaps I should point the mics a bit toward the stage so that I pick up the bass, guitar, and drums a little different in each mic.

Aaron Courtney · January 21st, 2008, 05:19 PM

Why not just use the stereo FOH mix and dump that into your 2-channel recorder?

Wayne Brissette · January 21st, 2008, 05:45 PM

I'm not really sure you're going to get very good results from the SM57 mics. Your best option is probably going to be getting a feed from the sound board. However, depending on the size of the venue, you might not get a great mix from the board either since a lot of the instruments (drums, guitars) won't be mic'd.

For music recording, I suggest using two cardiod mics... I think there was some discussion of something similar to this recently.

Wayne

Aaron Courtney · January 21st, 2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Brissette

you might not get a great mix from the board either since a lot of the instruments (drums, guitars) won't be mic'd.

That's when you bring your own, LOL! Seriously, any show that I mix FOH for, I always make sure to mic (or DI) everything. You can always pull it out, but you can't put it there if it ain't there to begin with.

If you're expecting a poor FOH feed, then a couple of nice omni's positioned appropriately in the venue can yield incredible results. Earthworks makes some great mic's for this purpose. Even something as simple as a couple of Shure KSM-44's (capable of very high SPL's) would be great. Save the 57's for the guitar cab's LOL.

If you're stealthing, then obviously these are all out of the question. SonicStudios makes a killer pair of binaural mic's that I use with my slightly modified Sony TCD-D100 DAT deck - awesome results (people have actually preferred my live CD's over commercially produced ones).

Tim Bickford · January 21st, 2008, 09:25 PM

Thanks for all the advice.

The vocals will be mixed through the PA along with an acoustic guitar. I'm certain that the Bass and Electric guitars and drums too will not be mixed through the PA. Since I do not record a lot of bands... I will probably not be buying any new mics soon. However, I do have a two Shure SM-58's.

What would be the better option to record with the 57's or 58's?

Thanks again!

Allen Plowman · January 21st, 2008, 09:56 PM

I dont think you will realistically hear a difference between the 57's or 58's. your not going to get awesome sound from only 2 mics. your going to get a lot of crowd noise. you will need to record one of the speakers, and have the other aimed at the stage, and then mix them into a mono channel. you can adjust the levels in post to get the sound as even as possible.

January 21st, 2008, 01:06 PM	#1
Tim Bickford Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 448	Recording Live band with Rode NTG-2 & SM57 I just ordered a Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone from B&H last week. I hope to get it today. I plan on shooting some video (with XL2) of a live band this Friday and could use some advice. My plan is to shoot with the XL2 using the on-board (stock) stereo mic while simultaneously recording the audio in stereo with my Zoom-H4 digital recorder. I planed on using a SM57 for one input and the new Rode NTG-2 Shotgun Condenser Microphone for the other. I was planning on setting the mics in front of each of the two PA speakers. Never having used the Rode NTG-2 - Shotgun Condenser Microphone before I'm in need of some advice on how to get the best audio capture in combination with the SM57 with Zoom H4 Any advice would be appreciated. Tim Bickford __________________ Tim Bickford

January 21st, 2008, 02:34 PM	#2
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	There's a major flaw in your strategy, Tim. For good stereo results, the left and right channels need to be recorded with identical microphones or at least microphones with very similar characteristics. The SM57 is a cardioid pattern dynamic mic while the Rode is a shotgun pattern condensor mic. Two very different sounding microphones - both excellent mics but intended for very different purposes. Shotguns have their uses in recording bands when used in multi-mic arrangments to pick out and isolate instruments or vocalists from the mix but are not so useful as one of the mics in a stereo array because they're simply too directional. Another caution is the Rode is fairly sensitive so there's a danger of overloading it if placed right in front of a PA speaker. So there really isn't an answer to your question as there simply isn't an arrangement of the Rode and the Shure that together will give a good stereo soundstage. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

January 21st, 2008, 03:35 PM	#3
Tim Bickford Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 448	Steve, Thanks... looks like I have a lot to learn about audio. I'll use two SM-57's and leave the Rode NTG-2 at home. I appreciate your advice! __________________ Tim Bickford

January 21st, 2008, 05:08 PM	#5
Tim Bickford Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 448	Most likely in mono. Perhaps I should point the mics a bit toward the stage so that I pick up the bass, guitar, and drums a little different in each mic. __________________ Tim Bickford

January 21st, 2008, 05:45 PM	#7
Wayne Brissette Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 383	I'm not really sure you're going to get very good results from the SM57 mics. Your best option is probably going to be getting a feed from the sound board. However, depending on the size of the venue, you might not get a great mix from the board either since a lot of the instruments (drums, guitars) won't be mic'd. For music recording, I suggest using two cardiod mics... I think there was some discussion of something similar to this recently. Wayne __________________ Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30 Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411

January 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM	#4
Allen Plowman Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paradise, california Posts: 353	are the two PA speakers in stereo? the band may have the same sound from both speakers.

January 21st, 2008, 05:19 PM	#6
Aaron Courtney Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 229	Why not just use the stereo FOH mix and dump that into your 2-channel recorder?

January 21st, 2008, 09:25 PM	#9
Tim Bickford Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 448	Thanks for all the advice. The vocals will be mixed through the PA along with an acoustic guitar. I'm certain that the Bass and Electric guitars and drums too will not be mixed through the PA. Since I do not record a lot of bands... I will probably not be buying any new mics soon. However, I do have a two Shure SM-58's. What would be the better option to record with the 57's or 58's? Thanks again! __________________ Tim Bickford

January 21st, 2008, 09:56 PM	#10
Allen Plowman Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Paradise, california Posts: 353	I dont think you will realistically hear a difference between the 57's or 58's. your not going to get awesome sound from only 2 mics. your going to get a lot of crowd noise. you will need to record one of the speakers, and have the other aimed at the stage, and then mix them into a mono channel. you can adjust the levels in post to get the sound as even as possible.