Audio Levels and Distortion?

[Lester DeLeon]

I am having the same problem with my GL2 and its onboard mic. I'm going to try turning on the MIC ATTentuator on. Does anyone know if a windscreen will help ???...my problems seemed to happen when I was in front of the speakers at a wedding reception.

I also just bought an AZDEN SGM-2X mic...will try to use this mic next time in cardioid mode (short barrel) to see if it suffers from the same distortion or not.

[Josh Bass]

How much does this MM1 preamp run?

[Dany Nativel]

Street price is $475 but I got mine from Audiomidi.com for $305 (incl. shipping). Zotz also has a very competitive price so I strongly recomend them too.

The more I use it the more I like it... it's so rugged compared to the GL2.

I've made a special cable coming out the MM1 to the cam that includes :
- XLR-XLR cable from the ME66 mounted on the camera (custom length, light cable)
- A 20dB pad (the MM-1 output is +4dBu) inside one of the XLR connector. MIC ATT is also used to provide the necessary additional 20dB attenuation.
That goes to one audio channel. On the other channel, I've just connected a small cable to the XLR connector that ends with a female 3.5mm jack so I can plug-in other audio devices directly to the cam without running a cable to it (wireless mic, lav...).

The good thing is you set your level on the GL2/XM2 and then you can forget about it and you would never see the "red of death" clipping information on the viewfinder again.

PS: I also carry another small patch cable XLR-XLR that provides 15dB attenuation so I can use it with the ME66 in case I'm in a very loud environment.

Dany.
(Maybe I should post schematics so you can make your own cables too).

[Jun Galinato]

I just bought an ME62, the omni capsule used for K6. I will try to use this in the reception. Has anyone use this set up? I am using a PD150, is it ok to use auto mode or manual mode audio?

[Mike Rehmus]

Run one channel in auto and the other in manual, a couple of notches below 50% for a while until you get comfortable with the setup.

[Jun Galinato]

Thanks Mike. I forgot, I will be using one channel only for the ME62 and the other channel for my wireless mic connected to the soundboard. I will try both for experiment. I will post more result after my shooting on July 4th.

[Jun Galinato]

Just an update, I have finished my shooting today and used my PD150 at the reception. My set up is channel 1 - ME62, attenuation is on and in manual mode, volume is 65%, audio is perfect in any angle since ME62 is an omni directional, it's really good for reception. Channel 2, AKG pr81 wireless mic set up to auto, volume of transmitter is set to minimum. I got a very clean and nice audio in my shooting. Hopes this gives a tip to anyone looking for a good sound in a reception.

[Steve Keller]

Thanks for the update Jun, it's great to see progress all the way to a successful conclusion. (especially since I am having the same problem!) I will definitely lose the ME66 for dance coverage at receptions, it is great for interviewing people before the loud music starts though.

Being new at this, I have two questions for connecting to a DJ's soundboard: First what type of line out connections do you typically see? The reception I did last week had dual RCA line outs, is this typical? Second what inputs will the Sennheiser EW100 wireless transmitters take? I assume it can take mic and line level inputs, but can it take any other type of output from a soundboard and if so what will they be labeled?

[Peter Jefferson]

"First what type of line out connections do you typically see?"

ther eis no typical im afraid... usualyl if your going by the rec outs of the mixing DECK, it woudlo be RCAs, if the deck is connected to a Mixing Console which is set up for band and PA work, then its a different story.

If its a Console, use the XLR out and connect to the transmitter pack via XLR. Reciever plugs into the mic in of my MX500 direct.

Another alternative if you dont have an extra cable or if you have a smaller input on your cam (this is what i do with my EW100 and DVX) is to get an adapter and connect it to the Monitor output from the console which is usually a 3/4 headfone socket. The Senn is smaller so this is where the adapter comes in. Thisis then plugged to the traansmitter. The Reciever carries the feed via XLR cable direct to the DVX

I then do a sound check when people are eating.


" The reception I did last week had dual RCA line outs, is this typical? "
See above... reception venbues will always change.. the best way IMO without the need to get too involved in the sound desk config, is to set up a the mic and receiver with a piece of black tape.. basically piggy backing the main PA Mic.
Or if the speeaches are on a podium, i plant the mic.

I usually check the setup prior to attempting any PA recordings.
Another trick which i forgot to mention (and the most dangerous) is to plant a mic near (about 5 to 10 metres) from a speaker.


"Second what inputs will the Sennheiser EW100 wireless transmitters take? "

From what ive tried, the mini plugs which came with the unit or an XLR input are the only ones that work...

Ive tested it with various output signals and sources and for some reason i cant even run a mini Y cable (RCA to mini plug) into it... which pissed me off to no end.. as most DJ decks have a record out which is perfect for this.

"I assume it can take mic and line level inputs, but can it take any other type of output from a soundboard and if so what will they be labeled?"

It can take any input signal so long as (for some strange reason) your using the original cables... i dunno, im still going right into this and im sure some peopel have had some luck...

Ive usually jsut used my line adapter and the line cable (Not XLR)directly from the Consoles Monitor output (as most have an independant and adjustable gain control) which teh venue dont use and they usually dont mind when i mess with it.
this is also good as the DJ plays backing music you can keep the feed going and you can pick up everythign (even his mistakes).
Now another good thing for this is not jsut the speeches, u can keep the feed going (albeit mono) for the dancing...

Most consoles also use groups and sends if theyre using outboard effects gear.. again that depends on the venue...
try to avoid using groups as usually the Mixer is configed as one group

-Heres an example

GROUP 1 (ie Band) = ch 1,2,3,4, for 4 person live band
GROUP 2 (ie Dj) = COULD BE group included with G1 + DJ's 2 channels ch5 & 6
GROUP 3 (Venue Microphones config).. usually one or two indvidual channel, but that again depends if the mics are fed thru the DJ console or thru the Console directly....

It goes a little deeper than that, but thats a basic run down on group outputs.. Might help, might not, depends on what you want to record...

And it can get even more techical but that should give an idea...

Like i said, connecting to the monitor output should be the best solution as youre not affecting the actual sound which the guests are hearing. It also mixes all your channels and groups and what YOU hear is what the guests hear.. the only difference is that you dont get the room ambience which can (IMO) be a good thing sometimes (especially with clapping, and laughing and Working with Dolby Audio)

Which comes to another subject..

Personally i set ch1 to recieve feed from the Mixer/Console via EW100. this usually ends up being DJ Music and Mics only.
BUT
Channel 2 is STILL recording off cam <MC100>... this picks up the ambience of the room

i then process the audio alot mroe than jsut recording, but i'll leave it at that for now.

its gettin late...

oh forgot to mention, turn ON the ALC on the DVX (if u got one), as it works VERY differently to the AGC of the MX500, which is what i was using as reference

[Steve Keller]

"Ive usually jsut used my line adapter and the line cable (Not XLR)directly from the Consoles Monitor output (as most have an independant and adjustable gain control) which teh venue dont use and they usually dont mind when i mess with it.
this is also good as the DJ plays backing music you can keep the feed going and you can pick up everythign (even his mistakes)."


That was another option on the sound board that I saw last weekend - a 1/4in "monitor" output. I was nervous about that since I don't know what kind of voltage that is and I know the mic and line voltages are pretty low. So that should work if I use the Senn. original cables with a 1/4in adapter, eh? Thanks for the lengthy reply Peter!

[Mark Sudfelt]

I have this same problem with distorted audio captured with the M66 and Sony PD 150 at a recent wedding reception. I used to use the onboard mic and never had problems with distortion. I was wondering if there is any way that this audio can be cleaned up in post to make it a bit more acceptable. I have mucked around with most of the filters in Sound Forge but with little success. I get the feeling there is not much that can be achieved with a distorted digital sound but please feel free to prove me wrong!


Mark Sudfelt

[Jacques Mersereau]

>>"Ive usually jsut used my line adapter and the line cable (Not XLR)directly from the Consoles Monitor output (as most have an independant and adjustable gain control) which the venue dont use and they usually dont mind when i mess with it.<<

What maybe true for one situation may NOT be true for another.
Yes, if nothing is plugged into a venue's mixer's AUX out or MON out, then
you can probably plug in and put a mix together, BUT I would not
count on it. May places are using the AUX outs for sending signal to
things like effects such as reverbs or delays. Others use them as sends
to stage monitors, other room speakers, or even recording devices.

My advice is to never mess with someone's mixer without asking.
Yes, you can try to apologize later and beg forgiveness, but
if it were my mixer, you'd be done. Venue owners and managers
who don't know anything about audio will FREAK if you mess with
their system, especially when you don't ask. You have to convince
them that you will NOT mess anything up and return it all to
it's previous condition. They really worry that it will cost THEM money
to fix what *was working fine* before you got there.

The general rule of thumb for mixer connectors and their signal output levels are:

RCA: -10dBu line level (mono)

1/4" phone: Can be either -10dBu line level unbalanced or +4dBu line level. (Mono)

1/4" TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) Generally +4dBu balanced line level.(usually mono)

XLR: +4dBu balanced line level.(Mono)

1/8" stereo mini: -10dBu line level (2 channel/stereo)

Also, if your recorded audio is distorted, there is nothing you can do that will
make it sound good after the fact. Get a good pair of headphones like
Sony 7506 and always monitor your audio so you don't catch
the distortion blues.

[Peter Jefferson]

Obviously before you connect ANYTHING to ANYTHING you would seek permission.

its only professional (and common) courtesy if you intend on using someone elses equipment for your own gain.

I wouldnt expect anyone here to just walk up to a mixer and mess with the config.... I think we all know better than that.

When i mentioned that "they dont mind when i mess with it", its is usually due to the fact that i have previously asked them if that connection is being used for any particular reason.

Most likely it isnt, and so they dont have a problem when i plug in.

I thought asking permission was obvious enough and didnt need to be mentioned.

In the game we're in, we cant afford to NOT ask permission...

[Dany Nativel]

On this thread I've been talking about having only a 20dB pad to go from +4dBu to mic level (MIC ATT).... THIS IS A MISTAKE !!!

I've discovered later that the max level allowed on the mic input with the MIC ATT turned on is -35dBu so you need a 40dB pad externally.

Using only a 20dB would lead you to very bad distortions !!!

Dany