Voice and audio at DVinfo.net

Juan Camara · November 30th, 2007, 02:59 PM

Hello i just want a little help or tricks in audio because I am new on this. I plan to shoot a instructional dance video. I will use the sony hvr-v1u with sony UWP-C1/6668 lavalier microphone combo. My question or doubt is there is any tricks that I should know before to shoot. The person will talk while the music is play, is not all time but sometimes this will happens. Should I works with the audio controls. I dont know what to do. The music I will use should i capture from the radio or at the time of edit. Please a little help. It will be an indoor recording

Ken Hull · November 30th, 2007, 05:02 PM

Juan,
The camcorder you're using records in HDV. I've never used HDV, but several others in these forums have said that HDV audio is good for voice, but not good enough for music. Could you have a high quality audio recorder on location to use instead of the camcorder's audio tracks? Or maybe add the music in editing?
Ken Hull

Damon Mentzer · November 30th, 2007, 05:46 PM

I am a newbie, especialy to sound, but here's my view....
Recording music that is played live WHILE actors are talking is going to sound poor, especially when using a lav mic and HDV's 16 bit audio. Can work for style choice, but I dont think you will want to do that. Also note that the lav is going to make a good deal of noise if poorly placed (dance costumes can be VERY loud materials)
I assume the music is recorded. You may be able to have the actors give their lives, take a pause, THEN start the live music to dance to. In post you can then take out the HDV audio, and insert clean music. If the music starts while the actors are talking, AND you add music in post, you will have a bad music track playing under a good one, and w/out perfect synch it would be appearant.
Try to pre-plan the shoot so there is as little talk/music at same time as possible, or work a way to add voice over instructions during post instead of on site.
OK, anyone with more knowledge, save this man from my mistakes :)

Jimmy Tuffrey · November 30th, 2007, 07:19 PM

Good point about mic placement. With al that movement going on you will need rock solid mic placement. Just an idea. Or wear it openly but again, you will have to check for clothing noise being picked up or worse still, clothing rubbing on the mic.

How about hiding it in a sweatband on the head? (OK that would work for a 1979 John Macenroe. A hat could work though. That is a good place to hide a mic as there is no movement and the mic moves with the head and mouth avoiding the head turn syndrome.

As for the music track it will need to be very quietly played in live to studio floor whilst being recorded direct to tape (camera). Again monitor on cans and check for colouration which you do not want.

Or give the dancer an ear-piece.

Obviously editing will be very tricky if you record the music with the picture. Convincing synch will be tricky if you don't. One way to cut would be to cross fade picture and music. Another would be to cut like a music edit on the snare drum beat. Depends on the track and whether it has vocals or not.

Anna Harmon · December 2nd, 2007, 02:11 PM

Hide the mic in their hair, it'll be fine. I'd do it without music but don't worry if you do. Just grab the tracks for post and tweak them there if you have the luxury. Have the music low during the shoot.

By grab I mean literally, grab the cds they're using.

Bill Mecca · December 2nd, 2007, 07:11 PM

okay, maybe this is a stupid question (but we know there is no such thing) is the person dancing the same as the person speaking? and will he/she be performing both acts simultaneously? It's not clear from the Original Post.

Juan Camara · December 10th, 2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Mecca

okay, maybe this is a stupid question (but we know there is no such thing) is the person dancing the same as the person speaking? and will he/she be performing both acts simultaneously? It's not clear from the Original Post.

Yes, she will performing and speak at the same time, but is not a hard work

Juan Camara · December 10th, 2007, 07:45 AM

What if I take the lavalier micro she will use and put into a mixer by ionpurt XLR line(CH1)and in the (CH2) the cd player with the original music take out the lines by XLR output then put in to my cam by xlr

Bill Mecca · December 10th, 2007, 09:27 AM

Juan,

I would keep the Voice and music as separate as possible in case you need to fix something in post. I would put the lav into one channel and the musicn into the other to keep them as separeate as possible. As much as possible I would try to keep the music in the dance area only loud enough for her to hear it and keep time.

You can always reinforce the music in post with the CD tracks.

Gerry Gallegos · December 10th, 2007, 11:48 AM

considering you are not trying to hide the fact that the instructor is to be miced' then the logical choice is to utilize a headset mic like aerobic instructors use, this puts instructors mic only a couple of inches from the mouth and minimizing the music into the vocal track. they do make some mics that are very low profile and are even flesh tone in color, to minimize visual impact. some of these can be rented or purchased and the proper connector installed by competent tech to work with your wireless system. this also solves the problem of placement and clothing noise. look into the countryman, senheiser, among others.

Anna Harmon · December 10th, 2007, 03:28 PM

Ah yes! Forgot about those. Formerly known as the Janet mic, now referred to as the Britney, if by nobody else but me.

Your choice dude. You can go for this. But if you want it to look like it's magic, hide it in the hair.

You're right though, the newer ones are hardly noticeable. And to rent one is cheap.

November 30th, 2007, 02:59 PM	#1
Juan Camara New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 21	Voice and audio Hello i just want a little help or tricks in audio because I am new on this. I plan to shoot a instructional dance video. I will use the sony hvr-v1u with sony UWP-C1/6668 lavalier microphone combo. My question or doubt is there is any tricks that I should know before to shoot. The person will talk while the music is play, is not all time but sometimes this will happens. Should I works with the audio controls. I dont know what to do. The music I will use should i capture from the radio or at the time of edit. Please a little help. It will be an indoor recording Last edited by Juan Camara; November 30th, 2007 at 02:59 PM. Reason: I for got something

December 2nd, 2007, 02:11 PM	#5
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	Hide the mic in their hair, it'll be fine. I'd do it without music but don't worry if you do. Just grab the tracks for post and tweak them there if you have the luxury. Have the music low during the shoot. By grab I mean literally, grab the cds they're using. Last edited by Anna Harmon; December 3rd, 2007 at 01:39 AM.

December 2nd, 2007, 07:11 PM	#6
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	okay, maybe this is a stupid question (but we know there is no such thing) is the person dancing the same as the person speaking? and will he/she be performing both acts simultaneously? It's not clear from the Original Post. __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

December 10th, 2007, 07:45 AM	#8
Juan Camara New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 21	What about Portable Audio Mixer What if I take the lavalier micro she will use and put into a mixer by ionpurt XLR line(CH1)and in the (CH2) the cd player with the original music take out the lines by XLR output then put in to my cam by xlr

December 10th, 2007, 09:27 AM	#9
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Juan, I would keep the Voice and music as separate as possible in case you need to fix something in post. I would put the lav into one channel and the musicn into the other to keep them as separeate as possible. As much as possible I would try to keep the music in the dance area only loud enough for her to hear it and keep time. You can always reinforce the music in post with the CD tracks. __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

November 30th, 2007, 05:02 PM	#2
Ken Hull Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 240	Juan, The camcorder you're using records in HDV. I've never used HDV, but several others in these forums have said that HDV audio is good for voice, but not good enough for music. Could you have a high quality audio recorder on location to use instead of the camcorder's audio tracks? Or maybe add the music in editing? Ken Hull

November 30th, 2007, 05:46 PM	#3
Damon Mentzer Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34	I am a newbie, especialy to sound, but here's my view.... Recording music that is played live WHILE actors are talking is going to sound poor, especially when using a lav mic and HDV's 16 bit audio. Can work for style choice, but I dont think you will want to do that. Also note that the lav is going to make a good deal of noise if poorly placed (dance costumes can be VERY loud materials) I assume the music is recorded. You may be able to have the actors give their lives, take a pause, THEN start the live music to dance to. In post you can then take out the HDV audio, and insert clean music. If the music starts while the actors are talking, AND you add music in post, you will have a bad music track playing under a good one, and w/out perfect synch it would be appearant. Try to pre-plan the shoot so there is as little talk/music at same time as possible, or work a way to add voice over instructions during post instead of on site. OK, anyone with more knowledge, save this man from my mistakes :)

November 30th, 2007, 07:19 PM	#4
Jimmy Tuffrey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol U.K. Posts: 244	Good point about mic placement. With al that movement going on you will need rock solid mic placement. Just an idea. Or wear it openly but again, you will have to check for clothing noise being picked up or worse still, clothing rubbing on the mic. How about hiding it in a sweatband on the head? (OK that would work for a 1979 John Macenroe. A hat could work though. That is a good place to hide a mic as there is no movement and the mic moves with the head and mouth avoiding the head turn syndrome. As for the music track it will need to be very quietly played in live to studio floor whilst being recorded direct to tape (camera). Again monitor on cans and check for colouration which you do not want. Or give the dancer an ear-piece. Obviously editing will be very tricky if you record the music with the picture. Convincing synch will be tricky if you don't. One way to cut would be to cross fade picture and music. Another would be to cut like a music edit on the snare drum beat. Depends on the track and whether it has vocals or not.

December 10th, 2007, 11:48 AM	#10
Gerry Gallegos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 262	instructional video considering you are not trying to hide the fact that the instructor is to be miced' then the logical choice is to utilize a headset mic like aerobic instructors use, this puts instructors mic only a couple of inches from the mouth and minimizing the music into the vocal track. they do make some mics that are very low profile and are even flesh tone in color, to minimize visual impact. some of these can be rented or purchased and the proper connector installed by competent tech to work with your wireless system. this also solves the problem of placement and clothing noise. look into the countryman, senheiser, among others.

December 10th, 2007, 03:28 PM	#11
Anna Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New York Posts: 127	Ah yes! Forgot about those. Formerly known as the Janet mic, now referred to as the Britney, if by nobody else but me. Your choice dude. You can go for this. But if you want it to look like it's magic, hide it in the hair. You're right though, the newer ones are hardly noticeable. And to rent one is cheap.