you have helped me narrow it down to a shotgun: Sanken CS-1 or mkh416? at DVinfo.net

Lonnie Bell · August 19th, 2007, 04:51 PM

Hi,
It's time to add a shotgun to my arsenal. I have a decent hypercardoid (akg ck93 - and will eventually look at the cmc641 when i can afford it), but am presently looking for that longer reach item - thus a shotgun. Probably will use it mostly outdoors and always on a boom (probably in a blimp) in a variety of conditions or at least when a hyper is not appropriate...

and at the same $700-$800 that puts me at a Sanken CS-1 or a used Senny mkh416...

what would you pros recommend?

thanks,
Lonnie

Mike Peter Reed · August 20th, 2007, 04:16 AM

The CS-3e has a great reputation and would be my mic of choice if I were buying today. I'd have to do more research on the CS-1 (which I guess is what you're doing) but "blind" I'd go for a 416, and probably a second-hand one at that.

From Microphone Data:
"The CS-1 is a short rifle microphone intended for film and TV but likely to find uses elsewhere too. The microphone is exceptionally short and light while retaining high directivity that is remarkably consistent - greater than 20dB front-to-back ratio across almost the entire frequency response. The CS-1 is small enough to fit onto ENG cameras but can also act as a high-quality boom microphone. The capsule is a Sanken original using a square diaphragm DC biased condenser design which can sustain SPLs as high as 137dB with only 1% distortion."

Ty Ford · August 20th, 2007, 04:11 PM

cs-3e

Ty Ford

Dan Brockett · August 20th, 2007, 11:32 PM

With Ty. Doing a huge mic article/review/test right now and the Sankens are emerging as an early front runner. Although those Schoeps are sweet but double your budget.

Dan

Wayne Brissette · August 21st, 2007, 04:37 AM

Also look around at the used market. I was able to pick up a nice Neumann KMR-82i that was gently used (OK, not as gently used as I wanted, but it was from a rental house that was going out of business) in this price range, and shotgun mics do show up from time to time on the market.

Wayne

Lonnie Bell · August 22nd, 2007, 12:33 AM

Alright guys...
If I extend my budget to the price of the CS-3e, that also puts us in the same price bracket as an MKH60.

So which is it MKH60 or CS-3e for an all around exterior location mic with reach?

Mike Peter Reed · August 22nd, 2007, 01:41 AM

CS-3e in my book

Steven Fokkinga · August 22nd, 2007, 11:57 AM

I got a used, but pristine 416 for €400. If you buy from a soundguy who knows how to treat his/her equipment, you'll find them in pretty good state for that price.

Steven

Meryem Ersoz · August 22nd, 2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie Bell

Alright guys...
If I extend my budget to the price of the CS-3e, that also puts us in the same price bracket as an MKH60.

So which is it MKH60 or CS-3e for an all around exterior location mic with reach?

is anyone willing to elaborate on why the CS-3e wins out over the mkh-60? i've been eyeing the mkh-60 but have really not had good luck finding much info about it. lots of folks seems to say "not as good as the mkh416" or "not as good as sanken" but i really can't get a handle on why this is the prevailing wisdom....

dan, when/where will you be posting your findings?

Steve Oakley · August 28th, 2007, 04:58 PM

I really really really dislike 416's. they are thin and cold sounding. the mkh60 was the replacement for the 416. I got to hear some side by side comparisons and the 416 was the worst sounding one of the bunch. sankens are nice, shoeps better.

Ty Ford · August 28th, 2007, 07:16 PM

With all due respect, if you think 416s are thin and cold, something is wrong with the particular 416s you have been exposed to .

The 416 has quite a bottom boost. I normally roll it off just to get it out of the way. The MKH 60 OTOH, to me and others, while obviously quieter, sounds very sterile.

More reviews in the Article Archive on my website.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Steve Oakley · August 28th, 2007, 07:58 PM

I'd have to say about a dozen or more 416's. rentals, personal gear of audio guy, ect. A few months ago a side by side with several other shotguns. In that particular side by side, the 416 was the least pleasing and consistant with other times I've used them. 60 had more bottom in that one, and warmer sounding.

Ty Ford · August 28th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Um, rentals, that may answer the question. What mixer(s)?

It would be interesting to confer with the guys over on ramps about your reaction.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Lonnie Bell · August 29th, 2007, 01:32 PM

ramps? what is ramps - another reference site?

googled "ramps" to no avail... what's ramps?

Steve House · August 29th, 2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonnie Bell

ramps? what is ramps - another reference site?

googled "ramps" to no avail... what's ramps?

A Usenet newsgroup where a lot of film industry and broadcast sound folks hang out - rec.arts.movies.production.sound

A lot of good info to be found in rec.audio.pro as well.

August 19th, 2007, 04:51 PM	#1
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	you have helped me narrow it down to a shotgun: Sanken CS-1 or mkh416? Hi, It's time to add a shotgun to my arsenal. I have a decent hypercardoid (akg ck93 - and will eventually look at the cmc641 when i can afford it), but am presently looking for that longer reach item - thus a shotgun. Probably will use it mostly outdoors and always on a boom (probably in a blimp) in a variety of conditions or at least when a hyper is not appropriate... and at the same $700-$800 that puts me at a Sanken CS-1 or a used Senny mkh416... what would you pros recommend? thanks, Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

August 20th, 2007, 04:11 PM	#3
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	cs-3e Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

August 20th, 2007, 11:32 PM	#4
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	I agree... With Ty. Doing a huge mic article/review/test right now and the Sankens are emerging as an early front runner. Although those Schoeps are sweet but double your budget. Dan

August 22nd, 2007, 12:33 AM	#6
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	Alright guys... If I extend my budget to the price of the CS-3e, that also puts us in the same price bracket as an MKH60. So which is it MKH60 or CS-3e for an all around exterior location mic with reach? __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

August 28th, 2007, 07:16 PM	#11
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	With all due respect, if you think 416s are thin and cold, something is wrong with the particular 416s you have been exposed to . The 416 has quite a bottom boost. I normally roll it off just to get it out of the way. The MKH 60 OTOH, to me and others, while obviously quieter, sounds very sterile. More reviews in the Article Archive on my website. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

August 20th, 2007, 04:16 AM	#2
Mike Peter Reed Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hants, UK Posts: 185	The CS-3e has a great reputation and would be my mic of choice if I were buying today. I'd have to do more research on the CS-1 (which I guess is what you're doing) but "blind" I'd go for a 416, and probably a second-hand one at that. From Microphone Data: "The CS-1 is a short rifle microphone intended for film and TV but likely to find uses elsewhere too. The microphone is exceptionally short and light while retaining high directivity that is remarkably consistent - greater than 20dB front-to-back ratio across almost the entire frequency response. The CS-1 is small enough to fit onto ENG cameras but can also act as a high-quality boom microphone. The capsule is a Sanken original using a square diaphragm DC biased condenser design which can sustain SPLs as high as 137dB with only 1% distortion."

August 21st, 2007, 04:37 AM	#5
Wayne Brissette Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 383	Also look around at the used market. I was able to pick up a nice Neumann KMR-82i that was gently used (OK, not as gently used as I wanted, but it was from a rental house that was going out of business) in this price range, and shotgun mics do show up from time to time on the market. Wayne

August 22nd, 2007, 01:41 AM	#7
Mike Peter Reed Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hants, UK Posts: 185	CS-3e in my book

August 22nd, 2007, 11:57 AM	#8
Steven Fokkinga Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 204	I got a used, but pristine 416 for €400. If you buy from a soundguy who knows how to treat his/her equipment, you'll find them in pretty good state for that price. Steven

August 28th, 2007, 04:58 PM	#10
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	I really really really dislike 416's. they are thin and cold sounding. the mkh60 was the replacement for the 416. I got to hear some side by side comparisons and the 416 was the worst sounding one of the bunch. sankens are nice, shoeps better.

August 28th, 2007, 07:58 PM	#12
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	I'd have to say about a dozen or more 416's. rentals, personal gear of audio guy, ect. A few months ago a side by side with several other shotguns. In that particular side by side, the 416 was the least pleasing and consistant with other times I've used them. 60 had more bottom in that one, and warmer sounding.

August 28th, 2007, 11:12 PM	#13
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Um, rentals, that may answer the question. What mixer(s)? It would be interesting to confer with the guys over on ramps about your reaction. Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

August 29th, 2007, 01:32 PM	#14
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	ramps? what is ramps - another reference site? googled "ramps" to no avail... what's ramps? __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV