Short condenser for camera at DVinfo.net

Mark Utley · August 11th, 2007, 12:37 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a short condenser mic for my Sony Z1 for somewhat all-purpose use. I shoot a lot of concerts so it needs a high SPL (my Sennheiser ME66 completely distorts at shows).

I'm thinking something like a Samson CO2 or Oktava MK012. I've used both for concerts and they're fine (I don't need amazing concert audio from them). The Oktava could be boomed indoors for interviews if I get multiple polar pattern capsules. They're both the right size, too, as I'd like to be able to leave them in the camera's mic mount all the time.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!
-Mark

Michael Wisniewski · August 11th, 2007, 01:05 AM

I like the Audio Technica AT3031 for that sort of thing. Has a 10db pad, low cut off switch, high SPL, it's also small, compact, and relatively inexpensive. Very useful mic to have around.

Steve House · August 11th, 2007, 02:20 AM

Haven't used either mic but the consensus of opinion is that the Octava is particularly sensitive to handling noise which can certainly be a factor when mounted on your camera. You might consider as well, any cardioid or hypercardioid mic mounted on-camera is going to pick up more operator noise than a shotgun might.

Les Wilson · August 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM

I use the Rode NTG mic. You can listen to it compared to some others at dvestore.com.

Brooks Harrington · August 13th, 2007, 11:03 AM

If you are recording PA concerts, rock concets, the output of your Senn is probably overloading the preamp in the camera, rather than the mic itself overloading. I'm assuming you are running the mic directly into you camera mic input. Try a 20 db inline pad/attenuator between mic and camera.

David Ennis · August 13th, 2007, 05:45 PM

Brooks is right, but if you care about the fidelity of the recorded music a cardioid like the AT3031 will give less frequency distortion than the Senn. If you just want interview audio with the music blaring in the background you might want to give the attenuator a try.

Ty Ford · August 13th, 2007, 06:55 PM

"frequency distortion?"

On camera mic for shooting concerts?

Everytime you move the camera, the sound field shifts.

This is a trick question, right?

Maybe a new version of "punk'd?"

Come on now,

Regards,

Ty Ford

Mark Utley · August 13th, 2007, 10:52 PM

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. My friend has an attenuator and I think I know someone with an AT3031, so I'll see about testing them out.

Good point about handling noise, Steve. Unfortunately, I don't think any decent shockmount is going to fit in my bag without having to be taken off the camera (which defeats the purpose of getting a small mic in the first place, haha).

Ty, my friend records tracked mixes at all the shows I shoot. I need a way of listening to not just the song, but how well the musicians play, without getting him to do a mixdown. The mic only has two purposes: hearing the instruments (or at least as much of them as I can from where I shoot) and crowd applause. I suppose I could set something up wirelessly.

Steve House · August 14th, 2007, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. My friend has an attenuator and I think I know someone with an AT3031, so I'll see about testing them out.

Good point about handling noise, Steve. Unfortunately, I don't think any decent shockmount is going to fit in my bag without having to be taken off the camera (which defeats the purpose of getting a small mic in the first place, haha).

Ty, my friend records tracked mixes at all the shows I shoot. I need a way of listening to not just the song, but how well the musicians play, without getting him to do a mixdown. The mic only has two purposes: hearing the instruments (or at least as much of them as I can from where I shoot) and crowd applause. I suppose I could set something up wirelessly.

If you can't get a decent shockmount that will fit without having to take the mic off the camera, then you take it off the camera. IMHO, you do whatever you need to do to deliver the final job properly with the level of quality required. If you simply need a personal record of the event and having professional audio quality doesn't really matter, shooting with the mic on the camera is fine. But if you're aiming for the audio quality you'd hear on PBS's "Austin City Limits" for example, you need to use the same techniques they use. As for on-camera mounts, take a look at the K-Tek camera mounts.

Ty Ford · August 14th, 2007, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

Ty, my friend records tracked mixes at all the shows I shoot. I need a way of listening to not just the song, but how well the musicians play, without getting him to do a mixdown. The mic only has two purposes: hearing the instruments (or at least as much of them as I can from where I shoot) and crowd applause. I suppose I could set something up wirelessly.

Hello Mark,

Oh! That's different.

I would not use a shotgun. I'd try a small hyper like a Audix SCX-1 or AT 4053a, with a pad, if necessary. Even an old Beyer m260 ribbon mic (low sensitivity).

BTW, pads won't work if the SPL is so loud that it's crushing the capsule.

SM57? :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

Marco Leavitt · August 14th, 2007, 08:31 AM

The ME66 has a pretty high SPL. If the mic itself is really distorting, I hope you're wearing ear protection. We've been recording a live band using the ME64 (as backup audio), and it sounds surprisingly good. The ME64 has a slightly lower output, so switching to that might be all you need. Still, Ty's right. I think you want an SM57. That's what we use for the main track, but we put it very close to the PA (no way to tap into the board, unfortunately).

David Ennis · August 14th, 2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

... Oh! That's different ... I would not use a shotgun ... I

Why not? Frequency distortion? :>)

Ty Ford · August 14th, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ennis

Why not? Frequency distortion? :>)

::Slap::

Ty Ford

August 11th, 2007, 12:37 AM	#1
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Short condenser for camera Hi everyone, I'm looking for a short condenser mic for my Sony Z1 for somewhat all-purpose use. I shoot a lot of concerts so it needs a high SPL (my Sennheiser ME66 completely distorts at shows). I'm thinking something like a Samson CO2 or Oktava MK012. I've used both for concerts and they're fine (I don't need amazing concert audio from them). The Oktava could be boomed indoors for interviews if I get multiple polar pattern capsules. They're both the right size, too, as I'd like to be able to leave them in the camera's mic mount all the time. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! -Mark __________________ Mark Utley

August 11th, 2007, 01:05 AM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	I like the Audio Technica AT3031 for that sort of thing. Has a 10db pad, low cut off switch, high SPL, it's also small, compact, and relatively inexpensive. Very useful mic to have around. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

August 11th, 2007, 02:20 AM	#3
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Haven't used either mic but the consensus of opinion is that the Octava is particularly sensitive to handling noise which can certainly be a factor when mounted on your camera. You might consider as well, any cardioid or hypercardioid mic mounted on-camera is going to pick up more operator noise than a shotgun might. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

August 13th, 2007, 05:45 PM	#6
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Brooks is right, but if you care about the fidelity of the recorded music a cardioid like the AT3031 will give less frequency distortion than the Senn. If you just want interview audio with the music blaring in the background you might want to give the attenuator a try. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

August 13th, 2007, 06:55 PM	#7
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	"frequency distortion?" On camera mic for shooting concerts? Everytime you move the camera, the sound field shifts. This is a trick question, right? Maybe a new version of "punk'd?" Come on now, Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

August 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM	#4
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	I use the Rode NTG mic. You can listen to it compared to some others at dvestore.com.

August 13th, 2007, 11:03 AM	#5
Brooks Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 152	If you are recording PA concerts, rock concets, the output of your Senn is probably overloading the preamp in the camera, rather than the mic itself overloading. I'm assuming you are running the mic directly into you camera mic input. Try a 20 db inline pad/attenuator between mic and camera.

August 13th, 2007, 10:52 PM	#8
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. My friend has an attenuator and I think I know someone with an AT3031, so I'll see about testing them out. Good point about handling noise, Steve. Unfortunately, I don't think any decent shockmount is going to fit in my bag without having to be taken off the camera (which defeats the purpose of getting a small mic in the first place, haha). Ty, my friend records tracked mixes at all the shows I shoot. I need a way of listening to not just the song, but how well the musicians play, without getting him to do a mixdown. The mic only has two purposes: hearing the instruments (or at least as much of them as I can from where I shoot) and crowd applause. I suppose I could set something up wirelessly. __________________ Mark Utley

August 14th, 2007, 08:31 AM	#11
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	The ME66 has a pretty high SPL. If the mic itself is really distorting, I hope you're wearing ear protection. We've been recording a live band using the ME64 (as backup audio), and it sounds surprisingly good. The ME64 has a slightly lower output, so switching to that might be all you need. Still, Ty's right. I think you want an SM57. That's what we use for the main track, but we put it very close to the PA (no way to tap into the board, unfortunately).