Sennhesier MKH 416 vs 418S vs 60? at DVinfo.net

Peter Moretti · August 3rd, 2007, 02:10 PM

I've read Ty's excellent reviews of these mikes, but I'm looking for some additional feedback.

I'll be using the mikes for a mostly interview documentary. Some shots will be outside, but the majority in the living room. Long reach is important b/c I'll be using the mike instead of a lav when taping children at play.

I'm tempted to go for the 416 because it's ubiquitous, sounds great, and is the cheapest of the three.

The 60 doesn't have the 416's bottom end, but bottom end can be a problem and it does have longer reach and somewhat lower noise.

The M-S setup of the 418S is intriguing and could prove useful, especially when filming a group of people.

Any thoughts?

P.S. I've looked at some other brands as well, like Schoeps and Sanken, but I guess I've had good experiences with Sennheiser equipment in the past and the wireless system I'll be using is Senn, so I'd like to stick with one brand.

Brooks Harrington · August 3rd, 2007, 04:16 PM

I have the MKH60 and think it's got great bottom end. Maybe you think the 416 has more because the mids are scooped, making it sound like it has more bottom and top end.
I don't know about using MS stereo for dialog, might be too much room sound.

Peter Moretti · August 3rd, 2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brooks Harrington

I have the MKH60 and think it's got great bottom end. Maybe you think the 416 has more because the mids are scooped, making it sound like it has more bottom and top end.
I don't know about using MS stereo for dialog, might be too much room sound.

Brooks, what made you go for the 60 over the 416?

Since it's an additional ~$600, I'm assuming there is something in the 60 you liked more. THANKS!

Brooks Harrington · August 3rd, 2007, 08:15 PM

Well the 416 is a very good mic. Discounted the 60 is not that much more.
60 has more switched options on the mic, and I think has a more open sound, almost like a large diaphram condensor.
416 very focused, which is also good. 416 not so good in hallways or indoors, but then again you might want to go with a different mic altogether indoors.
60 lighter weight, good off axis rolloff, very even sounding. More forgiving I think.
Actually help people setup with the 416T alot.... yes, those T-powered mics are still in use.
I don't think you will go wrong with any of those.

Dan Brockett · August 3rd, 2007, 09:26 PM

Hi:

I own the 60 also. It's a better mic for most people shooting in most situations than the 416. The 60 is newer technology. I am in the process of writing and testing for a new huge microphone test/review/shootout.

The 418? Why deal with stereo unless you have a source that justifies it, namely music and effects. If you are recording talking heads, IMHO, many more users have phase, cancellation and incorrect post handling of M+S sound than with mono. If I was shooting a live musical performance or sound effects with a Doppler sort of sound, 418 would be hot. Other than that, waste of effort IMHO.

I am also testing the Sankens, Schoeps, Neumann, Okatava, ATs, all of the popular short shotguns/hyper/super/cardioids. There are a lot of nice mics out there. I own the ME-64, 66, 67 and the MKH-60, nothing wrong with them but the Sankens in particular are really impressing me as is the Oktava MK012 so far. It really boils down to you will eventually want multiple mics. The 416, while it sounds good, I feel is somewhat overrated. It's a legend, but I don't know why. It's solid but I hear a lot of users that use it for the wrong kinds of situations, mainly in areas with high amounts of BG noise, it's a horrible choice for that "on the street" stuff.

Best,

Dan

Mike Peter Reed · August 4th, 2007, 04:11 AM

I heard the Sennheiser 8000 series got its first production run a week or two ago ... already been nicknamed Scheops-heiser ;-)

Larry Kamerman · August 5th, 2007, 04:35 PM

I use both the 416 and the 418. The 416 is a great all around shotgun mic to put on a camera. The 418, as was stated above, should be used for music or effects (street sounds, etc.) but not dialogue.

Meryem Ersoz · August 5th, 2007, 10:16 PM

hi dan: can you elaborate on the mkh-60's performance. i'm thinking of picking one of these up, but am not seeing much info out there...it tends to get eclipsed by talk of the 416. the conventional wisdom seems to be that it was intended to replace the 416, but the 416 was so popular, yada yada. but it seems like they are fairly different with some different applications.

any insight, from having used the 60?

August 3rd, 2007, 02:10 PM	#1
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	Sennhesier MKH 416 vs 418S vs 60? I've read Ty's excellent reviews of these mikes, but I'm looking for some additional feedback. I'll be using the mikes for a mostly interview documentary. Some shots will be outside, but the majority in the living room. Long reach is important b/c I'll be using the mike instead of a lav when taping children at play. I'm tempted to go for the 416 because it's ubiquitous, sounds great, and is the cheapest of the three. The 60 doesn't have the 416's bottom end, but bottom end can be a problem and it does have longer reach and somewhat lower noise. The M-S setup of the 418S is intriguing and could prove useful, especially when filming a group of people. Any thoughts? P.S. I've looked at some other brands as well, like Schoeps and Sanken, but I guess I've had good experiences with Sennheiser equipment in the past and the wireless system I'll be using is Senn, so I'd like to stick with one brand.

August 3rd, 2007, 09:26 PM	#5
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	My take Hi: I own the 60 also. It's a better mic for most people shooting in most situations than the 416. The 60 is newer technology. I am in the process of writing and testing for a new huge microphone test/review/shootout. The 418? Why deal with stereo unless you have a source that justifies it, namely music and effects. If you are recording talking heads, IMHO, many more users have phase, cancellation and incorrect post handling of M+S sound than with mono. If I was shooting a live musical performance or sound effects with a Doppler sort of sound, 418 would be hot. Other than that, waste of effort IMHO. I am also testing the Sankens, Schoeps, Neumann, Okatava, ATs, all of the popular short shotguns/hyper/super/cardioids. There are a lot of nice mics out there. I own the ME-64, 66, 67 and the MKH-60, nothing wrong with them but the Sankens in particular are really impressing me as is the Oktava MK012 so far. It really boils down to you will eventually want multiple mics. The 416, while it sounds good, I feel is somewhat overrated. It's a legend, but I don't know why. It's solid but I hear a lot of users that use it for the wrong kinds of situations, mainly in areas with high amounts of BG noise, it's a horrible choice for that "on the street" stuff. Best, Dan

August 5th, 2007, 04:35 PM	#7
Larry Kamerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York,NY Posts: 100	I use both the 416 and the 418. The 416 is a great all around shotgun mic to put on a camera. The 418, as was stated above, should be used for music or effects (street sounds, etc.) but not dialogue. __________________ www.gencofilms.com

August 3rd, 2007, 04:16 PM	#2
Brooks Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 152	I have the MKH60 and think it's got great bottom end. Maybe you think the 416 has more because the mids are scooped, making it sound like it has more bottom and top end. I don't know about using MS stereo for dialog, might be too much room sound.

August 3rd, 2007, 08:15 PM	#4
Brooks Harrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 152	Well the 416 is a very good mic. Discounted the 60 is not that much more. 60 has more switched options on the mic, and I think has a more open sound, almost like a large diaphram condensor. 416 very focused, which is also good. 416 not so good in hallways or indoors, but then again you might want to go with a different mic altogether indoors. 60 lighter weight, good off axis rolloff, very even sounding. More forgiving I think. Actually help people setup with the 416T alot.... yes, those T-powered mics are still in use. I don't think you will go wrong with any of those.

August 4th, 2007, 04:11 AM	#6
Mike Peter Reed Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hants, UK Posts: 185	I heard the Sennheiser 8000 series got its first production run a week or two ago ... already been nicknamed Scheops-heiser ;-)

August 5th, 2007, 10:16 PM	#8
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	hi dan: can you elaborate on the mkh-60's performance. i'm thinking of picking one of these up, but am not seeing much info out there...it tends to get eclipsed by talk of the 416. the conventional wisdom seems to be that it was intended to replace the 416, but the 416 was so popular, yada yada. but it seems like they are fairly different with some different applications. any insight, from having used the 60?