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August 3rd, 2007, 12:30 PM
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#1 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 740
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Boom, Mic combo - under $1200
Ok so I guess I`ve decided to try the boom road since it will be used for many projects in the future as well. I would like a mic that would be good both indoors and outdoors. My budget is $1200 for the mic AND boom pole and any wires etc needed to run it into an XLR jack on my Canon A1. I read something yesterday about mics that can be switched to different coverages for indoor/outdoor use...but lost where I read it. All feedback is helpful. Thanks.
*side question* Would running the boom through a mixer and then into the camera affect the quality at all? Or should I forget the mixer for now?
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August 3rd, 2007, 03:36 PM
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#2 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Posts: 287
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A good mixer will give you better sound quality because it will have significantly better pre-amps than your camera and it will give you additional control over your audio. The problem is that even a modest unit like a Sound Device MixPre will eat up half of your budget, so I'd be inclined to wait on the mixer. Don't forget a decent shock mount for the end of that boom.
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August 3rd, 2007, 04:26 PM
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#3 |
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Hi Nathan,
I'm in the process of doing the same thing myself. Since I can't afford to buy a shotgun that will work well both inside and outside ( like the Sanken CS-3E ), I'm going with a good hypercardioid mic that should be great indoors, and good outdoors provided I can get close enough. Here's what I've selected for my shopping list: Gitzo GB3650 13ft Carbon Fiber Boompole : $270 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...on_Carbon.html Audio-Technica AT4053a Hypercardioid Mic : $400 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html Rycote Baby Ball Gag Windshield : $139 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...indshield.html Rycote Windjammer for Baby Ball Gag Windshield : $70 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Baby_Ball.html K-Tek K-SSM - Shock Mount : $120 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ock_Mount.html Sound Devices MM-1 Mic Preamp with Headphone Monitor : $350 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...e_Channel.html TC-Industries TONE-PLUG : $50 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ion_Audio.html ( About $1400 in total ) I don't think the Sound Devices MM-1 has a tone switch, so I'm going to use the GTC Tone-plug to set my -12 dB sound level on the camera. The MM-1 has a headphone jack, so the boom operator can hear what they're recording. ( I'll have my headphones into the camera, so I can monitor what it's receiving ) ...Later on, when I can afford to buy a half-decent shotgun mic, I'll probably buy the AT 4073a and a blimp to go with it. ( $818 just for these two items ) Audio-Technica AT4073A Shotgun Mic : $550 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...icrophone.html K-Tek Zeppelin with K-GPS Suspension (Medium) : $368 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...sion_Med_.html I could also go used, but I would feel safer getting everything new for now. - Guy |
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August 3rd, 2007, 05:38 PM
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#4 | |
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Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,420
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Quote:
The point of sending tone is to provide alignment of the mixer VU with the camera VU, so that the mixer op can mix with his/her meters in confidence that they aren't overmodulating at the camera. Since your boomer will have no meters to watch on the MM-1, that will leave it to you, on the cam, to adjust recording level. |
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August 3rd, 2007, 07:15 PM
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#5 | |
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Quote:
...What about using the tone-plug to check the maximum level for the camera? So the boom op would know not to go beyond the maximum level for the camera ( judging by the MM-1 preamp switch markings, there are 11 mechanical clicks on the MM-1 gain switch ) which would just raise the noise floor, and possibly over modulate the signal. - Guy |
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August 3rd, 2007, 09:22 PM
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#6 |
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Hi Seth,
I was thinking about the tone-plug thing on the way home tonight, here is my train of thought... 1- The SD MM-1 outputs at line level, so if you set the MM-1 gain to 0 dB, then connect the tone-plug to set the correct pre-amp level on the camera for 0 dB tone. 2- With the camera's pre-amp level unchanged from step 1, you plug in your boom mic and sample the loudest sound you expect to record. You adjust the gain on the MM-1 so that the loudest sound you expect to record is peaking at the right level on the camera. 3- When shooting, the gain on the MM-1 stays the same as established in step 2, and the levels are ridden on the camera. ...Does this make any sense? I know that a proper mixer would be a much better setup, but the MM-1 fits my current budget. - Guy |
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August 4th, 2007, 12:24 AM
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#7 | ||
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Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,420
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Quote:
Quote:
2- turn on the preamp limiter, plug in the boom mic and sample the loudest sound you expect to record. Adjust preamp gain to where the limiter LED is blinking on the loud peaks (performance is almost always louder than rehearsal). 2a- Adjust the (manual) camera input level to where the VU meter is peaking at perhaps -12db on the loud peaks. 3- Same as what you wrote above. I've not used the MM-1, but, with Sound Devices rep for quality I'd expect what you've speced to be a reasonable approach to quality sound from a boom. Your boom op gets a good headphone amp, your camera gets a good line-level signal, with some limiting. And, you'll have a piece of gear that will still be useful (with a larger crew) when you finally do buy a mixer. It's not conventional, but, if you're good with monitoring levels at the camera it should work just fine. But, don't let me talk you out of buying a tone plug. I have one and I use it, it's a handy little tool to have. It just won't help you much with level setting out of the MM-1. It could help you establish how the limiter behaves. |
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August 4th, 2007, 07:23 AM
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#8 | |
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Inner Circle
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Your $1200 won't really get you what you want. I don't know where you read about indoor/outdoor switches. It's an intersting idea, but I haven't heard of one yet....and I do a lot of listening. :) What you need is, maybe, a Sanken CS-3e, Sound Devices 302 mixer cables and K-tek boom and a good mixer/camer cable...suspension gear for the mic to be mounted on the boom and probably wind protection for outside work....Oh, and headphones. I only spec Sony MDR7506 for headphones. I think the CS-3e can work indoors and out, but has a very tight pattern. That's good, but you need to have a really god boom op to stay on target. This is Pro gear and will provide you with very good sound when operated correctly. You could try and replace the Sanken CS-3e with an Audix SCX-1, but it won't have the reach of the CS-3e. Unlike most video gear, good pro audio gear can last a career. Regards, Ty Ford |
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August 4th, 2007, 08:54 AM
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#9 |
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Regular Crew
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 50
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I fear the Audio_Technica mic.
I can tell you from years of experience that mics are very important, and I am terribly sure that I have never seen a pro audio man ever work with Audio-Technica mics. Ever. Be very, very shure about that mic. Ask around some more before purchasing.
Think Sennheiser, Shure, and Sony. I know there is a lot of talk about other mics, but I like Sony and I LOOOOVE Sennheisers. They're hard to beat. |
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August 4th, 2007, 01:03 PM
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#10 | ||
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Quote:
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Lots of smaller budget and indie films use both Audio-Technica ( AT 4053a hypercardioid and AT 4073a shotgun ) and AKG blue-line ( SE300B power module and CK93 hypercardioid capsule ) mics, because they don't have the budget for Schoeps or Sanken mics. I'm pretty sure Nathan doesn't have the budget either... Here's a review from Electronic Musician comparing the sound quality of seven high end condenser mics. ( AKG, Audio-Technica, Josephson Engineering, Neumann, Pearl, Schoeps, Taylor Hohendahl Engineering ) Smokin' Condensers http://emusician.com/mics/emusic_smokin_condensers/ A quote from the review about the AT 4051 ( cardioid version of the mic I mentioned above ): "The AT4051a really impressed me when used as a close-mic on acoustic guitar. It seemed to have all the body of the warmer Neumann and Schoeps models, with the added benefit of a perfectly defined high-end sparkle. At a distance, it took on a smoother and more neutral character not unlike the Schoeps, but retained its characteristic warmth and presence." I'd prefer an ENG/EFP related review of this mic, but I haven't found one yet. I can't afford a Schoeps, but I think I will be happy with the AT 4053a for this year. |
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August 4th, 2007, 03:16 PM
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#11 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 740
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Yea this is all funded from my week to week paycheck, so I really need to stay under the $1,200 mark on this. The Sanken CS-3e is $1,350 itself. So I am looking for the best i can get on my budget. There are hundreds of people out there using cheaper equipment, and there must be a middle ground of sorts. I could always go with a B and H boom / mic package, but I want the best I can get for the money.
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August 4th, 2007, 03:35 PM
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#12 | |
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Quote:
This is why I am looking at hypercardioid mics ( and a Baby Ball Gag, which appears to function like a micro blimp ) that should give good sound indoors and out, as long as you can get close enough. Eventually I'll buy a good shotgun and blimp for outdoor recording. |
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August 4th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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#13 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 740
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Ok so what is best for outdoor use?
Indoor use? Is there a happy medium? The more important films I am doing right now are outdoor. So i`d prefer a better outdoor 'rig' for the time being. Just thought I might be able to kill 2 birds with one stone. I saw the Sennheiser ME 66/67...lowest of the line for Sennheiser...are they any good?
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August 4th, 2007, 07:00 PM
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#14 | |||
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Major Player
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 287
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Quote:
A high quality shotgun mic mounted in a blimp windshield with a faux-fur wind cover, mounted on a good quality boom pole, and an experienced boom op. The DVeStore has a video demo showing how a mic blimp fits together, with a tiny sample of it in use at the end. ( it's near the bottom of this page ) http://dvcreators.net/sennheiser-mics Quote:
A high quality hypercardioid mic mounted on a good quality boom pole, with an experienced boom op. Some of the high-end shotgun mics ( like the Sanken CS-3e or the Schoeps CMIT 5U ) will work quite well inside too. Quote:
Keep in mind that this shotgun mic shootout was done in a sound studio, so this demo won't give you any idea about how good these mics would be in a normal room. Also, don't overlook lavaliere mics, which are a different solution to consider. |
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August 4th, 2007, 08:18 PM
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#15 |
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Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
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Well with the price of everything it is looking ilke I have to choose either a shotgun OR lav mics....can`t do both. I figure the dialogues will be fairly close, so the boom should be able to stay close to them. Just need to decide what to get and pray for the best
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