AJA HD10A Analog Component HD to HD-SDI at DVinfo.net

John Jay · September 16th, 2005, 07:48 AM

FYI:
Any HD camera head can output HD-SDI SMPTE 292/296 (4:2:2 10 bit) 1.485Gbps USING EXTERNAL SYNC if required for around $1500. I cant understand why Canon have included it as standard - its just pushing the base price up into a cost conscious market.

from B&H site:

The HD10A is an Analog to Digital HDTV signal converter; it accepts a 3-wire Component HDTV analog video signal (and sync) and converts to HD-SDI digital HDTV signal.

Input Component Analog HDTV, 1080i @ 50/59.94/60 Hz, 1035i @ 50/59.94/60 Hz, 1080psf @ 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 Hz, 720p @ 59.94/60 Hz, on three BNC connectors
Sync, on a BNC connector

Output SDI-HD Digital Video x3, SMPTE 292 and SMPTE 296, on BNC connectors

Conversion Analog Component HDTV Video to HD-SDI Digital Video

Control External Dip Switch
Sync Mode
Input Mode
Output Mode

Jacques Mersereau · September 16th, 2005, 08:55 AM

<<Any HD camera head can output HD-SDI SMPTE 292/296 (4:2:2 10 bit) 1.485Gbps USING EXTERNAL SYNC if required for around $1500. I cant understand why Canon have included it as standard - its just pushing the base price up into a cost conscious market.>>

Then stick to DV or HDV. What Canon has done is provide a *professional
standard* with all the benefits therein, which until now, was available
only on cameras that cost $60,000.00!!!

Good move Canon!!! (Standing ovation!)

Thomas Smet · September 16th, 2005, 09:17 AM

John,

The only problem with that method is that the signal is analog and can have noise and other issues. While it will look good it would never be as good as with SDI. It is the same reason why high end SD users would choose SDI over component because it looks better. Before we all thought HD uncompressed component was great because we never in a million years thought we even had a chance of getting HD SDI.

John Jay · September 16th, 2005, 09:51 AM

... have you tried it? - can you say fo'sure?

all CCD are analogue - who's to say Canons A/D is any noisier than using the AJA?

is Canon's a professional standard? - I see no SMPTE 292/296 in the specs?

valid questions - no concrete answers to date.

Kevin Dooley · September 16th, 2005, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jay

all CCD are analogue - who's to say Canons A/D is any noisier than using the AJA?

Yeah, but now you're going analog from the CCD's to digital for the DSP, back to analog for the uncompressed component outs, then converting back to digital... Extra conversions, no matter how good, will add noise and/or degrade the signal, no matter how slight...

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jay

is Canon's a professional standard? - I see no SMPTE 292/296 in the specs?

According to Canon's website and the reports from the Canon expo it is SMPTE 292/296... it's been answered already...

Greg Boston · September 16th, 2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jay

is Canon's a professional standard? - I see no SMPTE 292/296 in the specs?

Yes, it's in the specs. See this link.

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/xlh1skinny.php

It's mentioned in the very first paragraph.

-gb-

John Jay · September 16th, 2005, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

Yeah, but now you're going analog from the CCD's to digital for the DSP, back to analog for the uncompressed component outs, then converting back to digital... Extra conversions, no matter how good, will add noise and/or degrade the signal, no matter how slight......

Theory is correct but quanta still not known and is dependent on shielding and D/A quality and bit depth.

Where does it say 10 bit 4:2:2 ?, the 1.485Gbps data rate sort of implies it but it is not specifically stated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Dooley

According to Canon's website and the reports from the Canon expo it is SMPTE 292/296... it's been answered already...

OK my bad - ive been looking here

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...&modelid=12152

but I see the SMPTE cable drivers are mentioned elsewhere

John Jay · September 18th, 2005, 03:45 PM

The article referenced at

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=51305

specifically states that Canon is using 8bit signal

if this is correct and can be independently verified it looks as though there is a lot of fat in that H1 SDI output.

Luis Caffesse · September 18th, 2005, 05:54 PM

I noticed that too John.
I wasn't sure if that was a known fact, or just a guess by that reviewer.
I'm hoping it's not true... that would be a pretty big let down on an otherwise really cool feature.

Jacques Mersereau · September 18th, 2005, 08:18 PM

A big let down?

Do you know what bit depth of HDV is? (It ain't 10 bit.)

From my understanding, DV, DVCPro50 and DVCPro100 are all 8 bit codecs.
The BBC found no one could tell the difference between 8 bit DVCPro 50
and 10 bit Digital Betacam @ 90mbps. Where it really matters is in
compositing, animation and smooth gradations.

Many cameras do initially capture at 12 bit and use those bits in
processing before they record 8 bit to tape. Yet, if you want to get
10 bit out of a Varicam, you use HD-SDI out to a $100,000.00
D5 deck that can record 10 bit (or a computer).

Yes, Canon's XL1 was/is 8 bit the whole way through and
its images suffer accordingly when compared to the current champ
the DVX100a. I do hope that Canon has stepped up to 12 bit
processing, but IMO what really matters is the final output.

So instead of it being a big let down, let's wait and see.

September 16th, 2005, 07:48 AM	#1
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	AJA HD10A Analog Component HD to HD-SDI FYI: Any HD camera head can output HD-SDI SMPTE 292/296 (4:2:2 10 bit) 1.485Gbps USING EXTERNAL SYNC if required for around $1500. I cant understand why Canon have included it as standard - its just pushing the base price up into a cost conscious market. from B&H site: The HD10A is an Analog to Digital HDTV signal converter; it accepts a 3-wire Component HDTV analog video signal (and sync) and converts to HD-SDI digital HDTV signal. Input Component Analog HDTV, 1080i @ 50/59.94/60 Hz, 1035i @ 50/59.94/60 Hz, 1080psf @ 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 Hz, 720p @ 59.94/60 Hz, on three BNC connectors Sync, on a BNC connector Output SDI-HD Digital Video x3, SMPTE 292 and SMPTE 296, on BNC connectors Conversion Analog Component HDTV Video to HD-SDI Digital Video Control External Dip Switch Sync Mode Input Mode Output Mode __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 16th, 2005, 08:55 AM	#2
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	<<Any HD camera head can output HD-SDI SMPTE 292/296 (4:2:2 10 bit) 1.485Gbps USING EXTERNAL SYNC if required for around $1500. I cant understand why Canon have included it as standard - its just pushing the base price up into a cost conscious market.>> Then stick to DV or HDV. What Canon has done is provide a professional standard with all the benefits therein, which until now, was available only on cameras that cost $60,000.00!!! Good move Canon!!! (Standing ovation!) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

September 16th, 2005, 09:51 AM	#4
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	... have you tried it? - can you say fo'sure? all CCD are analogue - who's to say Canons A/D is any noisier than using the AJA? is Canon's a professional standard? - I see no SMPTE 292/296 in the specs? valid questions - no concrete answers to date. __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 18th, 2005, 03:45 PM	#8
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	The article referenced at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=51305 specifically states that Canon is using 8bit signal if this is correct and can be independently verified it looks as though there is a lot of fat in that H1 SDI output. __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

September 18th, 2005, 05:54 PM	#9
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	I noticed that too John. I wasn't sure if that was a known fact, or just a guess by that reviewer. I'm hoping it's not true... that would be a pretty big let down on an otherwise really cool feature. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

September 16th, 2005, 09:17 AM	#3
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	John, The only problem with that method is that the signal is analog and can have noise and other issues. While it will look good it would never be as good as with SDI. It is the same reason why high end SD users would choose SDI over component because it looks better. Before we all thought HD uncompressed component was great because we never in a million years thought we even had a chance of getting HD SDI.

September 18th, 2005, 08:18 PM	#10
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	A big let down? Do you know what bit depth of HDV is? (It ain't 10 bit.) From my understanding, DV, DVCPro50 and DVCPro100 are all 8 bit codecs. The BBC found no one could tell the difference between 8 bit DVCPro 50 and 10 bit Digital Betacam @ 90mbps. Where it really matters is in compositing, animation and smooth gradations. Many cameras do initially capture at 12 bit and use those bits in processing before they record 8 bit to tape. Yet, if you want to get 10 bit out of a Varicam, you use HD-SDI out to a $100,000.00 D5 deck that can record 10 bit (or a computer). Yes, Canon's XL1 was/is 8 bit the whole way through and its images suffer accordingly when compared to the current champ the DVX100a. I do hope that Canon has stepped up to 12 bit processing, but IMO what really matters is the final output. So instead of it being a big let down, let's wait and see. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager