KI MIni to Shuttle Pro at DVinfo.net

John Thomason · March 17th, 2012, 04:27 PM

I am looking for a camera mountable recorder I looked at the AJA Mini and like it but I also looked a Black Magic hyper deck shuttle .Both will do Dnxhd . so I was wondering about the cost .I can get 2 hyper decks for the price of the MIni.what can the mini do that the shuttle pro can not do .and do you think that it is enough to justify the cost difference

AJA Mini $1900 + Media $400.00 Total $2300.00
Shuttle Pro $350.00+ media $ 350.00 Total $700.00

I am not knocking the mini I was curious about what I would be getting for the extra money .
I have the opportunity to purchase one new in box from someone getting out of video . How much better is the mini than the BM Shuttle Pro
.

Jon Thorn · March 19th, 2012, 07:41 PM

John T. - First, let me say that I'm always reluctant to perform product comparisons. Too often, comparisons devolve into "flame wars" or "shoot outs" between companies. Having said that, I can give you some of the merits of the Ki Pro Mini and denote some of the differences between the products. Any information I provide I hope you will appreciate is provided based solely on your question as posed.

At this time, DNxHD encoding support is not yet provided for the Ki Pro Mini; free firmware allowing this should be available soon. (If you are not already aware of it, Apple ProRes QuickTime files can be used within Avid Media Composer v5.5 and Avid Media Composer v6 via AMA.) When the free firmware that supports DNxHD is made available for the Ki Pro Mini, the Ki Pro Mini will be able to encode to the various flavors of Apple ProRes 422 or the various flavors of Avid DNxHD. At this time, the Hyperdeck Shuttle records to uncompressed or Avid DNxHD 220x only.

Connectivity, Storage, UI and controls, AJA Ki Pro Mini:
1x SDI input
(via standard BNC connector)
1x SDI output
(via standard BNC connector)
1x HDMI input
(v1.3 via type A connector)
1x HDMI 1.3a output
(v1.3 via type A connector)
1x LTC input
(via BNC connector)
2x LANC ports
(LANC loop for remote start/stop when used with a LANC-enabled camera)
1x LAN connector
(for web UI control and configuration)
1x dipswitch for +48v phantom power/Mic/Line level audio
2x XLR balanced analog audio inputs
- SDI embedded audio (2 or 8 channel, user selectable)
- HDMI embedded audio (2 channel input/8 channel output)
2x CompactFlash slots (for media)
1x LCD display
UI provides information for: reel number, clip name, selected slot, timecode, and percentage of media available when in transport state.
UI provides additional operation information such as input format, output format, timecode and alarms via STATUS.
UI provides configuration and menu parameter selections for a variety of operational parameters via CONFIG.
UI provides configuration and menu parameter selections for a variety of media parameters via MEDIA.
5x dedicated transport buttons: play/stop(pause)/record/rewind/fast forward
9x dedicated operational buttons for configuration, single clip deletion, previous clip/next clip selection, single frame step forward/reverse and media removal.
1x power button (requires single depression for power up and multi-second depression to confirm power down)
4x media LEDs (2x top and 2x front of unit)
2x multi-segment LED VU meters
2x audio control knobs (when used with analog audio, may be used to adjust audio levels)
1x mini-TRS headphone jack
1x headphone volume control knob
1x 4-pin XLR power input (may be used with AJA supplied AC power supply or with battery power)
8x 1/4-20 threaded holes on aluminum chassis (can be used with AJA optional mounting plates or other plates from a variety of manufacturers)
1x CD-ROM with manual, release notes, quick start guides and firmware
1x AC power supply

Connectivity, Storage, UI and controls, Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2:
1x SDI input
(via 1.0/2.3 DIN connectors)
1x SDI output
(via 1.0/2.3 DIN connectors)
1x HDMI input
(v1.3 via type A connector)
1x HDMI output
(v1.3 via type A connector)
1x SATA port (for media)
1x Mini-USB connector for configuration
1x power connector
5x dedicated transport buttons (record/previous clip/stop/play/next clip)
1x "DISP" button (not enabled at this time)
1x "VIDEO" light (indicates video detected)
1x "SSD" light (indicates that the SSD is recognized)
1x Battery lights (indicates remaining battery life via 4 lights)
1x power button ((requires single depression for power up and multi-second depression to confirm power down)
1x DVD with manual and configuration software
1x AC power supply

Simply comparing the connectivity, the AJA Ki Pro Mini provides standard BNC connectors for SDI whereas the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 will require the use of 1.0/2.3 DIN to BNC adapter cables.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini offers a dedicated LTC connector for timecode in addition to support for embedded timecode via SDI and support for embedded timecode via HDMI (when used with select Sony cameras); the AJA Ki Pro Mini also supports pre-selected timecode values for record run and a time-of-day option for freerunning timecode. It is a bit unclear to what extent Blackmagic provides timecode support; it is my understanding that only with a recent firmware update could the Hyperdeck Shuttle record SDI embedded timecode and I cannot credibly speak about what may or may not be enabled.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini features LANC ports. A LANC controller can be connected to the Ki Pro Mini and then looped out to the camera; hitting record on the LANC controller will cause both the camera and the Ki Pro Mini to begin recording. Important: you cannot simply have a LANC controller only connected to Ki Pro Mini and use it to arm recording; you need a LANC enabled Sony or Canon camera in the signal chain. The camera is the essential element because it contains the LANC (or Control-L) protocol; if only a camera is used, it can be connected to Ki Pro Mini directly and if the camera begins recording, the Ki Pro Mini will also begin recording.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini offers a LAN connector (ethernet connector) that may be attached to a host computer and via IP address, the device may be configured or controlled; no special software is required for this, just a host computer, a web browser and ethernet connection. This functionality on the AJA Ki Pro Mini is in addition to the front panel UI and buttons. The Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 does not feature an on-board UI; it can only be configured via connection to a host computer running Mac or Windows specific software available from Blackmagic.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini features balanced analog audio input with phantom/mic/line selection as well as audio controls and VU meters and a headphone jack. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 only supports embedded SDI or embedded HDMI audio, analog audio input is not provided and additionally no analog audio monitoring is provided.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini features 2x CompactFlash slots (for use with one card at a time). CompactFlash media is used on a variety of cameras in the marketplace including DSLRs and video camcorders. CompactFlash is rated for multiple insertions and repeated use. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 uses a SATA connection to host 2.5" SSD drives. Unlike eSATA connectors, "bare" SATA connectors are not rated for repeated insertions and may have a shorter than expected time before failure when used repeatedly. The bare SATA connection on the SSD drive itself must be handled with care to avoid static discharge.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini can format media HFS+ via an on-board operating system; no external devices are required to prepare media for recordings. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 cannot format media on-board; media must be formatted externally prior to being able to produce recordings. To format media, the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 requires the use of a user supplied dock or adapter cable connected to a computer to format the media as HFS+. If working on a PC, a third party software application purchase would be required to format media as HFS+.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini features an on-board UI for status, system overview, parameter configuration, media playback, etc. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features an option for "super output" of the transport state (play/record/stop/pause) and timecode via window burn. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 does not feature an on-board UI. Operations such as choosing a recording format and other configuration selections must be made with the device attached to a host computer via USB.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini features 4x 1/4-20 threaded holes on each side of the unit for a total of 8. These standard 1/4-20 threaded holes may be used with adapter plates or articulated arms from a variety of manufacturers. AJA offers an optional mounting plate which can be used in a variety of configurations with AJA provided accessories for 15mm rods or with third party mounting products. You can see the mounting plate here:
Ki Pro Mini - AJA Video Systems

Read more about using it here:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/Ki_Pro_Mini_Mounting_Options.pdf

Blackmagic Design offers a mounting plate that requires a user to remove the rubber pad on the bottom of the recorder, where the serial number for the unit resides, to adhere it to the the unit. Without removing the rubber pad on the bottom of the unit, no mounting points are provided on the unit.

In addition to basic physical connectivity and operational differences, the AJA Ki Pro Mini also provides a number of unique features by comparison: warning alarms, a variety of playback options including looped playback and playlist creation, standard or custom clip naming, options for 1080PsF or 1080p playback, super out, unique camera data interactions with RED and Canon cameras, video and audio signal generators, web UI control and even data transfers. AJA also offers a three year warranty for the Ki Pro Mini and unlimited technical support via phone or email in addition to the supplied and detailed product documentation.

If you are interested, you can download and review the Ki Pro Mini manual here:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/AJA_Ki_Pro_Mini_Guide_3.0.pdf

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact AJA directly.

Hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

John Thomason · March 26th, 2012, 09:03 AM

Jon
Thank you for your detailed reply. I did purchase the Ki Mini. I guess you get what you pay for and by the looks of this unit it seams to really be solid . I have not taken it out for a drive yet because I have not purchased cards yet. I looked on the website to see what is the recommended card , but I could not find a time table for record time . Is there one available. how much record time for 64gig or 32 gig card at the highest quality level I am trying to determine how many cards I would need for a 2 hour shoot. I would be using a JVC HD250

Jon Thorn · March 26th, 2012, 05:44 PM

John T. - AJA offers a free utility for calculating disk space and bandwidth requirements for Mac OS, Windows OS and iOS called the AJA DataCalc. (Sometimes it is alternately referred to by it's previous name, "AJA DataRate Calculator".) You may find the download links for this application on our website here, under the "AJA Data Rate Calculator" heading:
Software - AJA Video Systems

The application provides a variety of presets for Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422 (LT) and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy).

The format and frame rate, along with the version of Apple ProRes you elect to use, will impact the data bandwidth and space requirements. It is also good to keep in mind that Apple ProRes is a VBR codec, and therefore, the numbers provided by the AJA application are to be taken as estimates. If you recorded a white wall, the actual bit rate might be considerably lower due to the nature of VBR encoding and the file might be smaller than expected. If you recorded multi-colored hot air balloons and the camera was panning over them, as an example, the bit rate might be as high as the maximum target rate for the given encoding level. As a general rule, Apple ProRes 422 is more than sufficient to create quality video encodings. (Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) is more applicable for heaving compositing and color grading workflows.)

As an example, let's refer to the following scenario:
1080i 29.97fps video encoding to Apple ProRes 422 with 2 channels of audio.

The video portion of the encoding will require up to approximately 20.62 MB/sec.
The audio portion of the encoding will require approximately 288 KB/sec.

Using this as a basis, you could expect to get approximately 45 to 50 minutes of footage on a qualified SanDisk Extreme Pro 64GB CompactFlash card (again, depending on what type of footage was being shot due to the VBR encoding). The AJA application provides a way to determine time (hours, minutes, seconds, etc.) and a multiplier so that you can work out how much media will be used or how much media capacity you will need for a given shooting scenario.

If you have questions about the Ki Pro Mini operation, please be sure to refer to the documentation for the product, such as the manual, which can be found on-line here:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/AJA_Ki_Pro_Mini_Guide_3.0.pdf
There is also a QuickStart Guide available here:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/KiPro...kStartText.pdf
If you need the list of AJA qualified CompactFlash cards for use with the Ki Pro Mini, please visit the following link:
http://www.aja.com/pdf/KiProMini_qualifiedCF_cards.pdf

You should always feel free to contact AJA Technical Support via phone or email between 9am and 5pm PST if you have any other question or concerns about AJA products.

Hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

March 17th, 2012, 04:27 PM	#1
John Thomason Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Michigan US Posts: 28	KI MIni to Shuttle Pro I am looking for a camera mountable recorder I looked at the AJA Mini and like it but I also looked a Black Magic hyper deck shuttle .Both will do Dnxhd . so I was wondering about the cost .I can get 2 hyper decks for the price of the MIni.what can the mini do that the shuttle pro can not do .and do you think that it is enough to justify the cost difference AJA Mini $1900 + Media $400.00 Total $2300.00 Shuttle Pro $350.00+ media $ 350.00 Total $700.00 I am not knocking the mini I was curious about what I would be getting for the extra money . I have the opportunity to purchase one new in box from someone getting out of video . How much better is the mini than the BM Shuttle Pro .

March 19th, 2012, 07:41 PM	#2
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: KI MIni to Shuttle Pro John T. - First, let me say that I'm always reluctant to perform product comparisons. Too often, comparisons devolve into "flame wars" or "shoot outs" between companies. Having said that, I can give you some of the merits of the Ki Pro Mini and denote some of the differences between the products. Any information I provide I hope you will appreciate is provided based solely on your question as posed. At this time, DNxHD encoding support is not yet provided for the Ki Pro Mini; free firmware allowing this should be available soon. (If you are not already aware of it, Apple ProRes QuickTime files can be used within Avid Media Composer v5.5 and Avid Media Composer v6 via AMA.) When the free firmware that supports DNxHD is made available for the Ki Pro Mini, the Ki Pro Mini will be able to encode to the various flavors of Apple ProRes 422 or the various flavors of Avid DNxHD. At this time, the Hyperdeck Shuttle records to uncompressed or Avid DNxHD 220x only. Connectivity, Storage, UI and controls, AJA Ki Pro Mini: 1x SDI input (via standard BNC connector) 1x SDI output (via standard BNC connector) 1x HDMI input (v1.3 via type A connector) 1x HDMI 1.3a output (v1.3 via type A connector) 1x LTC input (via BNC connector) 2x LANC ports (LANC loop for remote start/stop when used with a LANC-enabled camera) 1x LAN connector (for web UI control and configuration) 1x dipswitch for +48v phantom power/Mic/Line level audio 2x XLR balanced analog audio inputs - SDI embedded audio (2 or 8 channel, user selectable) - HDMI embedded audio (2 channel input/8 channel output) 2x CompactFlash slots (for media) 1x LCD display UI provides information for: reel number, clip name, selected slot, timecode, and percentage of media available when in transport state. UI provides additional operation information such as input format, output format, timecode and alarms via STATUS. UI provides configuration and menu parameter selections for a variety of operational parameters via CONFIG. UI provides configuration and menu parameter selections for a variety of media parameters via MEDIA. 5x dedicated transport buttons: play/stop(pause)/record/rewind/fast forward 9x dedicated operational buttons for configuration, single clip deletion, previous clip/next clip selection, single frame step forward/reverse and media removal. 1x power button (requires single depression for power up and multi-second depression to confirm power down) 4x media LEDs (2x top and 2x front of unit) 2x multi-segment LED VU meters 2x audio control knobs (when used with analog audio, may be used to adjust audio levels) 1x mini-TRS headphone jack 1x headphone volume control knob 1x 4-pin XLR power input (may be used with AJA supplied AC power supply or with battery power) 8x 1/4-20 threaded holes on aluminum chassis (can be used with AJA optional mounting plates or other plates from a variety of manufacturers) 1x CD-ROM with manual, release notes, quick start guides and firmware 1x AC power supply Connectivity, Storage, UI and controls, Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2: 1x SDI input (via 1.0/2.3 DIN connectors) 1x SDI output (via 1.0/2.3 DIN connectors) 1x HDMI input (v1.3 via type A connector) 1x HDMI output (v1.3 via type A connector) 1x SATA port (for media) 1x Mini-USB connector for configuration 1x power connector 5x dedicated transport buttons (record/previous clip/stop/play/next clip) 1x "DISP" button (not enabled at this time) 1x "VIDEO" light (indicates video detected) 1x "SSD" light (indicates that the SSD is recognized) 1x Battery lights (indicates remaining battery life via 4 lights) 1x power button ((requires single depression for power up and multi-second depression to confirm power down) 1x DVD with manual and configuration software 1x AC power supply Simply comparing the connectivity, the AJA Ki Pro Mini provides standard BNC connectors for SDI whereas the Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 will require the use of 1.0/2.3 DIN to BNC adapter cables. The AJA Ki Pro Mini offers a dedicated LTC connector for timecode in addition to support for embedded timecode via SDI and support for embedded timecode via HDMI (when used with select Sony cameras); the AJA Ki Pro Mini also supports pre-selected timecode values for record run and a time-of-day option for freerunning timecode. It is a bit unclear to what extent Blackmagic provides timecode support; it is my understanding that only with a recent firmware update could the Hyperdeck Shuttle record SDI embedded timecode and I cannot credibly speak about what may or may not be enabled. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features LANC ports. A LANC controller can be connected to the Ki Pro Mini and then looped out to the camera; hitting record on the LANC controller will cause both the camera and the Ki Pro Mini to begin recording. Important: you cannot simply have a LANC controller only connected to Ki Pro Mini and use it to arm recording; you need a LANC enabled Sony or Canon camera in the signal chain. The camera is the essential element because it contains the LANC (or Control-L) protocol; if only a camera is used, it can be connected to Ki Pro Mini directly and if the camera begins recording, the Ki Pro Mini will also begin recording. The AJA Ki Pro Mini offers a LAN connector (ethernet connector) that may be attached to a host computer and via IP address, the device may be configured or controlled; no special software is required for this, just a host computer, a web browser and ethernet connection. This functionality on the AJA Ki Pro Mini is in addition to the front panel UI and buttons. The Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 does not feature an on-board UI; it can only be configured via connection to a host computer running Mac or Windows specific software available from Blackmagic. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features balanced analog audio input with phantom/mic/line selection as well as audio controls and VU meters and a headphone jack. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 only supports embedded SDI or embedded HDMI audio, analog audio input is not provided and additionally no analog audio monitoring is provided. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features 2x CompactFlash slots (for use with one card at a time). CompactFlash media is used on a variety of cameras in the marketplace including DSLRs and video camcorders. CompactFlash is rated for multiple insertions and repeated use. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 uses a SATA connection to host 2.5" SSD drives. Unlike eSATA connectors, "bare" SATA connectors are not rated for repeated insertions and may have a shorter than expected time before failure when used repeatedly. The bare SATA connection on the SSD drive itself must be handled with care to avoid static discharge. The AJA Ki Pro Mini can format media HFS+ via an on-board operating system; no external devices are required to prepare media for recordings. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 cannot format media on-board; media must be formatted externally prior to being able to produce recordings. To format media, the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 requires the use of a user supplied dock or adapter cable connected to a computer to format the media as HFS+. If working on a PC, a third party software application purchase would be required to format media as HFS+. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features an on-board UI for status, system overview, parameter configuration, media playback, etc. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features an option for "super output" of the transport state (play/record/stop/pause) and timecode via window burn. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 does not feature an on-board UI. Operations such as choosing a recording format and other configuration selections must be made with the device attached to a host computer via USB. The AJA Ki Pro Mini features 4x 1/4-20 threaded holes on each side of the unit for a total of 8. These standard 1/4-20 threaded holes may be used with adapter plates or articulated arms from a variety of manufacturers. AJA offers an optional mounting plate which can be used in a variety of configurations with AJA provided accessories for 15mm rods or with third party mounting products. You can see the mounting plate here: Ki Pro Mini - AJA Video Systems Read more about using it here: http://www.aja.com/pdf/Ki_Pro_Mini_Mounting_Options.pdf Blackmagic Design offers a mounting plate that requires a user to remove the rubber pad on the bottom of the recorder, where the serial number for the unit resides, to adhere it to the the unit. Without removing the rubber pad on the bottom of the unit, no mounting points are provided on the unit. In addition to basic physical connectivity and operational differences, the AJA Ki Pro Mini also provides a number of unique features by comparison: warning alarms, a variety of playback options including looped playback and playlist creation, standard or custom clip naming, options for 1080PsF or 1080p playback, super out, unique camera data interactions with RED and Canon cameras, video and audio signal generators, web UI control and even data transfers. AJA also offers a three year warranty for the Ki Pro Mini and unlimited technical support via phone or email in addition to the supplied and detailed product documentation. If you are interested, you can download and review the Ki Pro Mini manual here: http://www.aja.com/pdf/AJA_Ki_Pro_Mini_Guide_3.0.pdf If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact AJA directly. Hope this information is helpful, Jon Thorn Senior Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

March 26th, 2012, 09:03 AM	#3
John Thomason Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Michigan US Posts: 28	Re: KI MIni to Shuttle Pro Jon Thank you for your detailed reply. I did purchase the Ki Mini. I guess you get what you pay for and by the looks of this unit it seams to really be solid . I have not taken it out for a drive yet because I have not purchased cards yet. I looked on the website to see what is the recommended card , but I could not find a time table for record time . Is there one available. how much record time for 64gig or 32 gig card at the highest quality level I am trying to determine how many cards I would need for a 2 hour shoot. I would be using a JVC HD250

March 26th, 2012, 05:44 PM	#4
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: KI MIni to Shuttle Pro John T. - AJA offers a free utility for calculating disk space and bandwidth requirements for Mac OS, Windows OS and iOS called the AJA DataCalc. (Sometimes it is alternately referred to by it's previous name, "AJA DataRate Calculator".) You may find the download links for this application on our website here, under the "AJA Data Rate Calculator" heading: Software - AJA Video Systems The application provides a variety of presets for Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ), Apple ProRes 422 (LT) and Apple ProRes 422 (Proxy). The format and frame rate, along with the version of Apple ProRes you elect to use, will impact the data bandwidth and space requirements. It is also good to keep in mind that Apple ProRes is a VBR codec, and therefore, the numbers provided by the AJA application are to be taken as estimates. If you recorded a white wall, the actual bit rate might be considerably lower due to the nature of VBR encoding and the file might be smaller than expected. If you recorded multi-colored hot air balloons and the camera was panning over them, as an example, the bit rate might be as high as the maximum target rate for the given encoding level. As a general rule, Apple ProRes 422 is more than sufficient to create quality video encodings. (Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) is more applicable for heaving compositing and color grading workflows.) As an example, let's refer to the following scenario: 1080i 29.97fps video encoding to Apple ProRes 422 with 2 channels of audio. The video portion of the encoding will require up to approximately 20.62 MB/sec. The audio portion of the encoding will require approximately 288 KB/sec. Using this as a basis, you could expect to get approximately 45 to 50 minutes of footage on a qualified SanDisk Extreme Pro 64GB CompactFlash card (again, depending on what type of footage was being shot due to the VBR encoding). The AJA application provides a way to determine time (hours, minutes, seconds, etc.) and a multiplier so that you can work out how much media will be used or how much media capacity you will need for a given shooting scenario. If you have questions about the Ki Pro Mini operation, please be sure to refer to the documentation for the product, such as the manual, which can be found on-line here: http://www.aja.com/pdf/AJA_Ki_Pro_Mini_Guide_3.0.pdf There is also a QuickStart Guide available here: http://www.aja.com/pdf/support/KiPro...kStartText.pdf If you need the list of AJA qualified CompactFlash cards for use with the Ki Pro Mini, please visit the following link: http://www.aja.com/pdf/KiProMini_qualifiedCF_cards.pdf You should always feel free to contact AJA Technical Support via phone or email between 9am and 5pm PST if you have any other question or concerns about AJA products. Hope this information is helpful, Jon Thorn Senior Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.