Ki Pro variable frame rate at DVinfo.net

Steve Phillipps · September 25th, 2011, 05:54 AM

Just wondering why it is that the Nanoflash can do a full variable frame rate function but the Ki Pro can't?
Still toying with using an external recorder with the Varicam, but as discussed before it's only 60hz so you can't get 25P out of it, but you can in VFR mode with the Nano.
I'd much rather have the Ki though, any chance of getting 25P?
Steve

Jon Thorn · September 28th, 2011, 10:49 AM

Steve P. - I covered this topic in a reply to you in another thread in August with the information we have at hand. AJA uses flagged frame data found in the ancillary data of the SDI; can't speak to how other companies might perform frame extraction. We have been doing this for quite some time and were one of the first to support this outside of Panasonic themselves with our desktop KONA products.

Here is that post:

August 12th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Steve P. - With firmware version 2.5, or later, the Ki Pro Mini provides support for the 720p60 format (720p59.94 support was always provided). To extract 720p25 from the 720p60 signal, you would need to make the VFR selection in the CONFIG Record Type parameter.

720p25 within 720p60 is fairly uncommon; it was only used on the earliest Panasonic Varicam models. At AJA, the only 720p25/60 test tape we have from one of those early Varicam cameras is a series of Steadicam shots that were recorded without sound, so I can't speak to the audio portion I'm afraid. We use an early Panasonic VTR, the AJ-HD150, that can output the 720p25 within 720p60 signal to test with. When we set the Ki Pro Mini for VFR, it reports that it sees the 720p25 within the 720p60 signal and it records what appears to be accurate frame removal, producing a 720p25 recording.

If you own a Panasonic Varicam that produces the 720p25 within 720p60 signal, and you want to be sure that it works for your needs, you could likely contact your local AJA reseller to schedule a demo or test.

Hope this is helpful information,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Steve Phillipps · September 28th, 2011, 04:21 PM

Sorry Jon,
I know we did talk about it before, but I was still unclear.
So if I set VFR on the Ki Pro and set say 25fps on the Varicam will I get 25P normal speed playback? And if I then change to 60fps on the camera will I then get slow motion playback? And is audio still recorded in VFR mode?
I appreciate that you don't have a camera to test it on.
Thanks,
Steve

Jon Thorn · September 28th, 2011, 05:02 PM

Steve P. - If you set the original generation of tape-based Varicam cameras to 720p 25 fps within 60 fps, the flagged frames should appear to the Ki Pro Mini, set to VFR, as 25 fps (assuming you are using firmware version 2.5 or later). If you set the camera to 60 fps, the Ki Pro Mini would see 60 fps; this would not produce slow motion as the video output from the camera is a "real time" output. As you have noted, these are legacy cameras and we don't have one on hand at AJA; we only have an older DVCPRO HD VTR that happens to support the 720p 25/60 signal as noted and we only have a test tape that is without audio. Again, if you are interested in this workflow, I would suggest scheduling a test session with your local AJA authorized reseller. I'm sure they would be happy to let you bring your camera to them and try a Ki Pro Mini in this configuration.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Senior Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Steve Phillipps · September 29th, 2011, 02:30 AM

OK, so not slow motion natively in the Ki Pro, but presumably then if I dropped all clips into a 25P timeline the 25fps sec clips would be normal speed and the 60fps slow motion?
I realise that NLEs might not be your area of expertise.
Thanks again.
Steve

September 25th, 2011, 05:54 AM	#1
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Ki Pro variable frame rate Just wondering why it is that the Nanoflash can do a full variable frame rate function but the Ki Pro can't? Still toying with using an external recorder with the Varicam, but as discussed before it's only 60hz so you can't get 25P out of it, but you can in VFR mode with the Nano. I'd much rather have the Ki though, any chance of getting 25P? Steve

September 28th, 2011, 10:49 AM	#2
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: Ki Pro variable frame rate Steve P. - I covered this topic in a reply to you in another thread in August with the information we have at hand. AJA uses flagged frame data found in the ancillary data of the SDI; can't speak to how other companies might perform frame extraction. We have been doing this for quite some time and were one of the first to support this outside of Panasonic themselves with our desktop KONA products. Here is that post: August 12th, 2011, 01:27 PM Steve P. - With firmware version 2.5, or later, the Ki Pro Mini provides support for the 720p60 format (720p59.94 support was always provided). To extract 720p25 from the 720p60 signal, you would need to make the VFR selection in the CONFIG Record Type parameter. 720p25 within 720p60 is fairly uncommon; it was only used on the earliest Panasonic Varicam models. At AJA, the only 720p25/60 test tape we have from one of those early Varicam cameras is a series of Steadicam shots that were recorded without sound, so I can't speak to the audio portion I'm afraid. We use an early Panasonic VTR, the AJ-HD150, that can output the 720p25 within 720p60 signal to test with. When we set the Ki Pro Mini for VFR, it reports that it sees the 720p25 within the 720p60 signal and it records what appears to be accurate frame removal, producing a 720p25 recording. If you own a Panasonic Varicam that produces the 720p25 within 720p60 signal, and you want to be sure that it works for your needs, you could likely contact your local AJA reseller to schedule a demo or test. Hope this is helpful information, Jon Thorn Senior Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

September 28th, 2011, 04:21 PM	#3
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Re: Ki Pro variable frame rate Sorry Jon, I know we did talk about it before, but I was still unclear. So if I set VFR on the Ki Pro and set say 25fps on the Varicam will I get 25P normal speed playback? And if I then change to 60fps on the camera will I then get slow motion playback? And is audio still recorded in VFR mode? I appreciate that you don't have a camera to test it on. Thanks, Steve

September 28th, 2011, 05:02 PM	#4
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: Ki Pro variable frame rate Steve P. - If you set the original generation of tape-based Varicam cameras to 720p 25 fps within 60 fps, the flagged frames should appear to the Ki Pro Mini, set to VFR, as 25 fps (assuming you are using firmware version 2.5 or later). If you set the camera to 60 fps, the Ki Pro Mini would see 60 fps; this would not produce slow motion as the video output from the camera is a "real time" output. As you have noted, these are legacy cameras and we don't have one on hand at AJA; we only have an older DVCPRO HD VTR that happens to support the 720p 25/60 signal as noted and we only have a test tape that is without audio. Again, if you are interested in this workflow, I would suggest scheduling a test session with your local AJA authorized reseller. I'm sure they would be happy to let you bring your camera to them and try a Ki Pro Mini in this configuration. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Senior Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

September 29th, 2011, 02:30 AM	#5
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Re: Ki Pro variable frame rate OK, so not slow motion natively in the Ki Pro, but presumably then if I dropped all clips into a 25P timeline the 25fps sec clips would be normal speed and the 60fps slow motion? I realise that NLEs might not be your area of expertise. Thanks again. Steve