XLR and RCA not showing up? at DVinfo.net

Nick Hiltgen · April 28th, 2011, 06:16 PM

So I'm hoping I just missed some analog setting but it seems that I'm only able to record audio through the sdi embedded input of the kipro. I tried swapping input to both XLR and RCA but have had no luck hearing anything. I did a factory reset and then matched the settings to another kipro that I know is working but still have had no luck. When I switch audio input to sdi it works fine, but on any analog port there's nothing. Please tell me I'm missing something and don't have a dead kipro!

Jon Thorn · April 28th, 2011, 06:50 PM

Nick H. - If you performed a Factory Reset of the Ki Pro, then it will reset the Video Input and Audio Input CONFIG menu parameters to SDI. If you wish to use the analog audio inputs, you will need to select that in the CONFIG 2.2 Audio Input parameter. For RCA audio input, select "RCA" and for balanced analog audio input, select "XLR". On the front of the Ki Pro, be sure that the two control knobs for levels control are not panned to the far left as that will significantly lower the audio level; you may need to adjust these audio control knobs to obtain the desired levels for the RCA and balanced XLR input. Also note that for balanced XLR audio input, there is a Mic/Line/Phantom power switch on the rear of the unit that should be placed in the appropriate setting for the audio that is being input. Additionally, note that 8-channel audio is only supported when using SDI embedded audio; an alarm condition, "Warning Invalid" will appear if you have selected 8-channels of audio in CONFIG 2.3 Audio Channels. Be sure that this is not selected for Audio Channels when working with analog audio for the Audio Input parameter; select "2-Channels". Finally, there is the CONFIG 4.1 Analog Audio parameter where you can determine the appropriate signal level depending upon the equipment and connection used. The Ki Pro operation manual pages to refer to for audio settings are pages 45-46.

If, after you have reviewed all of these settings you still cannot seem to obtain analog audio, check all of your cable connections. Note that unlike the video connectors on the Ki Pro, the analog audio connectors are input on the bottom and output on the top; you may simply have the connections reversed.

Finally, if you still need assistance, feel free to contact AJA Technical Support via phone or email.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Nick Hiltgen · April 28th, 2011, 11:03 PM

see below, the rest here is just filler.

Nick Hiltgen · April 28th, 2011, 11:05 PM

Hey Jon unfortunately this is not helpful. It would seem that the analog input board (is there an analog input board?) has died. What's the warranty on Aja ki pros? Can you provide me with the service number?

Jon Thorn · April 29th, 2011, 08:01 AM

Nick H. - Your Ki Pro will certainly be within warranty. AJA Technical Support can issue an RMA, or if you need, an Advanced Exchange unit.

AJA Technical Support contact information (phone, email, submission form, etc.) can be found here:
SUPPORT - AJA Video Systems

Sorry that it did not seem to be resolved by my menu setting or cabling suggestions. Obviously, not the norm as you note when compared with your other Ki Pro unit.

Again, sorry for the inconvenience to you. Please follow up with AJA Technical Support to resolve the matter.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Nick Hiltgen · May 10th, 2011, 03:02 PM

I wanted to follow up on my experience and ask Jon for his opinion.

First of all, AJA customer support is amazing! I made my claim yesterday and I received a temporary replacement today, that kind of customer service is almost unbelievable in this day and age.

Now for the weird thing. I had left one thing off of my initial description of my problem. The other difference between my kipro and the other 5 we were using, (aside from the lack of analog audio) was that it was in the AJA exoskeleton case. Well in order to ship my kipro back I had to take it out of the exoskeleton case and me being the curious guy I am had to confirm that there was still the issue before I boxed it up. So I hooked up an XLR mic in and my ipod to the rca input and... everything worked perfectly.

So now I feel like a first class ass, after checking all the things that Jon asked me to check clearly I missed something, I called up the other engineer on the job and he said, try putting it back in the exoskeleton see if it still works. So I did, and it did! or so I thought, when I attempted to go from rca to xlr the setting would change in the menu but the source stayed as RCA through the input.

Hmm so I'm thinking maybe it's just that the screws in the bottom are tweaked so I back the screws for the exoskeleton all of the way out but it still has the same issue. It seems that WHEN PLACED IN THE EXOSKELETON ENCLOSURE THE AUDIO INPUT IS LOCKED TO WHATEVER IT WAS OUTSIDE OF THE ENCLOSURE. I don't mean to shout but this confounds me to no end! So I try the back up unit that I received from AJA and it does the exact same thing. So it would seem that my exoskeleton is broken? Which is strange because it's just a couple of pieces of metal. So now should I send the unit in? The exoskeleton? Everything? I really have no idea whats going on. Has anyone else with an exoskeleton experienced this? Is this like a hidden feature that I'm not aware of?

Surely there must be something else? The only thing I changed when going from inside the exoskeleton to outside the exoskeleton is unplugging the power cable (which you have to do in order to get the kipro in and out of the exoskeleton.) I'm sorry if this is a well known issue (feature?) but I am completely floored by it.

Help me Jon Thorn you're my only hope!

Nick Hiltgen · May 10th, 2011, 03:25 PM

OK I'm freaking out a little less now, could it be that the power cable is tweaked and that it's getting just enough juice to the kipro to that it'll change settings without the exoskeleton on but with it on and insulating the heat the fans work harder and there's not enough juice to change the settings over?

Maybe I should jsut take a nap and drink a beer things are usually clearer after that happens.

Jon Thorn · May 10th, 2011, 03:29 PM

Nick H. - This is odd to say the least. Here are some things to consider...

Perhaps you see analog audio input while powered up with the either analog XLR or RCA selected, but you then don't see the analog audio input when you re-power the unit because the unit is defaulting to it's factory default settings during the power cycle. The default audio input selection is SDI, so if this was happening, you could have analog audio, then unplug the unit, plug it back in and not have analog audio as your analog audio selection had reverted to the default SDI. I would look into that first and foremost.

I've never seen a unit "lose" it's analog audio capability when placed inside of the Exoskeleton accessory. The AJA-provided screws you use to mount the Ki Pro inside of the Exoskeleton don't go deep enough into the chassis to be of any issue for the electronics inside the unit. Now if you weren't using the AJA-supplied thumbscrews, but some other screws... maybe that could be an issue...

The last, possibly somewhat "oddball" idea, is that you may have an electrical grounding issue of some sort. By this, I mean that the power source feeding the Ki Pro in the Exoskeleton has some issue, but when you plug it in somewhere else/use a different power supply, there isn't an issue because the power being supplied is clean. Is the unit placed in the Exoskeleton always using the same AJA power supply, the same power outlet/socket on the wall, etc?

As you've already noted, AJA Technical Support will do their very best to help you sort this out... something is odd about this, and it's nothing I've ever heard reported before, so I'm a little stumped. AJA Technical Support can walk through the whole configuration with you via phone to help determine why this is occurring. I think the really telling thing is that your unit and the unit they shipped you both operate as expected... except for when they are in the Exoskeleton as you note.

Sorry it's a hassle, but I'm glad that you are at least narrowing this down. This is the best help I can provide based on the information you've provided. Please contact AJA Technical Support for additional assistance.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Nick Hiltgen · May 10th, 2011, 03:39 PM

Thanks Jon, I think it is the power supply, (should have been my first guess, but Like I said I need a nap and a beer) I tried a different 12v power supply (not the one that came with the kipro) and everything worked exactly like it should, I guess I need to check and see if that is still under warranty or if I just need to buy another one to live with the kipro, thank you so much for listening to my conspiracy theories of a piece of metal shorting out the board or my exoskeleton needing to be exorcised... I've worked with electronics long enough to know that if something is acting like it's possessed then it probably has a power issue.

Jon Thorn · May 10th, 2011, 03:52 PM

Nick H. - AJA Technical Support can get you a replacement for the power supply that is misbehaving; just contact them and they can arrange this. Don't worry about asking AJA questions or suggesting some "conspiracy theories" when things misbehave... it's all part of the process in an effort to support you! We understand.

On a related note... I think you are entitled to your beer and a nap later today! :-)

Glad you got to the bottom of it,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

April 28th, 2011, 06:16 PM	#1
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	XLR and RCA not showing up? So I'm hoping I just missed some analog setting but it seems that I'm only able to record audio through the sdi embedded input of the kipro. I tried swapping input to both XLR and RCA but have had no luck hearing anything. I did a factory reset and then matched the settings to another kipro that I know is working but still have had no luck. When I switch audio input to sdi it works fine, but on any analog port there's nothing. Please tell me I'm missing something and don't have a dead kipro! __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

April 28th, 2011, 06:50 PM	#2
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Nick H. - If you performed a Factory Reset of the Ki Pro, then it will reset the Video Input and Audio Input CONFIG menu parameters to SDI. If you wish to use the analog audio inputs, you will need to select that in the CONFIG 2.2 Audio Input parameter. For RCA audio input, select "RCA" and for balanced analog audio input, select "XLR". On the front of the Ki Pro, be sure that the two control knobs for levels control are not panned to the far left as that will significantly lower the audio level; you may need to adjust these audio control knobs to obtain the desired levels for the RCA and balanced XLR input. Also note that for balanced XLR audio input, there is a Mic/Line/Phantom power switch on the rear of the unit that should be placed in the appropriate setting for the audio that is being input. Additionally, note that 8-channel audio is only supported when using SDI embedded audio; an alarm condition, "Warning Invalid" will appear if you have selected 8-channels of audio in CONFIG 2.3 Audio Channels. Be sure that this is not selected for Audio Channels when working with analog audio for the Audio Input parameter; select "2-Channels". Finally, there is the CONFIG 4.1 Analog Audio parameter where you can determine the appropriate signal level depending upon the equipment and connection used. The Ki Pro operation manual pages to refer to for audio settings are pages 45-46. If, after you have reviewed all of these settings you still cannot seem to obtain analog audio, check all of your cable connections. Note that unlike the video connectors on the Ki Pro, the analog audio connectors are input on the bottom and output on the top; you may simply have the connections reversed. Finally, if you still need assistance, feel free to contact AJA Technical Support via phone or email. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

April 28th, 2011, 11:03 PM	#3
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? see below, the rest here is just filler. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome... Last edited by Nick Hiltgen; April 28th, 2011 at 11:11 PM. Reason: hotel internet sucks

April 28th, 2011, 11:05 PM	#4
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Hey Jon unfortunately this is not helpful. It would seem that the analog input board (is there an analog input board?) has died. What's the warranty on Aja ki pros? Can you provide me with the service number? __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

April 29th, 2011, 08:01 AM	#5
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Nick H. - Your Ki Pro will certainly be within warranty. AJA Technical Support can issue an RMA, or if you need, an Advanced Exchange unit. AJA Technical Support contact information (phone, email, submission form, etc.) can be found here: SUPPORT - AJA Video Systems Sorry that it did not seem to be resolved by my menu setting or cabling suggestions. Obviously, not the norm as you note when compared with your other Ki Pro unit. Again, sorry for the inconvenience to you. Please follow up with AJA Technical Support to resolve the matter. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

May 10th, 2011, 03:02 PM	#6
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? I wanted to follow up on my experience and ask Jon for his opinion. First of all, AJA customer support is amazing! I made my claim yesterday and I received a temporary replacement today, that kind of customer service is almost unbelievable in this day and age. Now for the weird thing. I had left one thing off of my initial description of my problem. The other difference between my kipro and the other 5 we were using, (aside from the lack of analog audio) was that it was in the AJA exoskeleton case. Well in order to ship my kipro back I had to take it out of the exoskeleton case and me being the curious guy I am had to confirm that there was still the issue before I boxed it up. So I hooked up an XLR mic in and my ipod to the rca input and... everything worked perfectly. So now I feel like a first class ass, after checking all the things that Jon asked me to check clearly I missed something, I called up the other engineer on the job and he said, try putting it back in the exoskeleton see if it still works. So I did, and it did! or so I thought, when I attempted to go from rca to xlr the setting would change in the menu but the source stayed as RCA through the input. Hmm so I'm thinking maybe it's just that the screws in the bottom are tweaked so I back the screws for the exoskeleton all of the way out but it still has the same issue. It seems that WHEN PLACED IN THE EXOSKELETON ENCLOSURE THE AUDIO INPUT IS LOCKED TO WHATEVER IT WAS OUTSIDE OF THE ENCLOSURE. I don't mean to shout but this confounds me to no end! So I try the back up unit that I received from AJA and it does the exact same thing. So it would seem that my exoskeleton is broken? Which is strange because it's just a couple of pieces of metal. So now should I send the unit in? The exoskeleton? Everything? I really have no idea whats going on. Has anyone else with an exoskeleton experienced this? Is this like a hidden feature that I'm not aware of? Surely there must be something else? The only thing I changed when going from inside the exoskeleton to outside the exoskeleton is unplugging the power cable (which you have to do in order to get the kipro in and out of the exoskeleton.) I'm sorry if this is a well known issue (feature?) but I am completely floored by it. Help me Jon Thorn you're my only hope! __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

May 10th, 2011, 03:25 PM	#7
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? OK I'm freaking out a little less now, could it be that the power cable is tweaked and that it's getting just enough juice to the kipro to that it'll change settings without the exoskeleton on but with it on and insulating the heat the fans work harder and there's not enough juice to change the settings over? Maybe I should jsut take a nap and drink a beer things are usually clearer after that happens. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

May 10th, 2011, 03:29 PM	#8
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Nick H. - This is odd to say the least. Here are some things to consider... Perhaps you see analog audio input while powered up with the either analog XLR or RCA selected, but you then don't see the analog audio input when you re-power the unit because the unit is defaulting to it's factory default settings during the power cycle. The default audio input selection is SDI, so if this was happening, you could have analog audio, then unplug the unit, plug it back in and not have analog audio as your analog audio selection had reverted to the default SDI. I would look into that first and foremost. I've never seen a unit "lose" it's analog audio capability when placed inside of the Exoskeleton accessory. The AJA-provided screws you use to mount the Ki Pro inside of the Exoskeleton don't go deep enough into the chassis to be of any issue for the electronics inside the unit. Now if you weren't using the AJA-supplied thumbscrews, but some other screws... maybe that could be an issue... The last, possibly somewhat "oddball" idea, is that you may have an electrical grounding issue of some sort. By this, I mean that the power source feeding the Ki Pro in the Exoskeleton has some issue, but when you plug it in somewhere else/use a different power supply, there isn't an issue because the power being supplied is clean. Is the unit placed in the Exoskeleton always using the same AJA power supply, the same power outlet/socket on the wall, etc? As you've already noted, AJA Technical Support will do their very best to help you sort this out... something is odd about this, and it's nothing I've ever heard reported before, so I'm a little stumped. AJA Technical Support can walk through the whole configuration with you via phone to help determine why this is occurring. I think the really telling thing is that your unit and the unit they shipped you both operate as expected... except for when they are in the Exoskeleton as you note. Sorry it's a hassle, but I'm glad that you are at least narrowing this down. This is the best help I can provide based on the information you've provided. Please contact AJA Technical Support for additional assistance. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

May 10th, 2011, 03:39 PM	#9
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Thanks Jon, I think it is the power supply, (should have been my first guess, but Like I said I need a nap and a beer) I tried a different 12v power supply (not the one that came with the kipro) and everything worked exactly like it should, I guess I need to check and see if that is still under warranty or if I just need to buy another one to live with the kipro, thank you so much for listening to my conspiracy theories of a piece of metal shorting out the board or my exoskeleton needing to be exorcised... I've worked with electronics long enough to know that if something is acting like it's possessed then it probably has a power issue. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

May 10th, 2011, 03:52 PM	#10
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: XLR and RCA not showing up? Nick H. - AJA Technical Support can get you a replacement for the power supply that is misbehaving; just contact them and they can arrange this. Don't worry about asking AJA questions or suggesting some "conspiracy theories" when things misbehave... it's all part of the process in an effort to support you! We understand. On a related note... I think you are entitled to your beer and a nap later today! :-) Glad you got to the bottom of it, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.