Bad KiPro drive? at DVinfo.net

Richard Crowley · December 14th, 2010, 10:35 PM

I am a new user of KiPro and I love it when it is working. But I purchased an additional 500GB disk module along with the 250GB disk that the KiPro comes with. So far, I have had no problems at all with the 250GB drive, but with the 500GB drive, the KiPro stops at random times with all the buttons flashing claiming that it could not continue recording.

Now this is the same behavior reported elsewhere as being associated with incoming video data streams that are interrupted, noisy, or defective in some way, However, when I switch back to the 250GB drive, it is happy as a clam (with exactly the same video input from my Panasonic AW-HS50 video switcher).

I am considering taking the drive back to my dealer and asking for a new one, but I have to look up the warranty on these things. Other than this problem with the 500GB drive, I am very pleased with my KiPro.

Jon Thorn · December 15th, 2010, 11:13 AM

Richard C. - It is possible that you have a defective 500GB drive; of course, AJA doesn't manufacture the drive inside the Storage Module, and while we do test all of the products, it can sometimes happen that drives become problematic.

I would recommend that you simply contact AJA technical support and they will issue you an RMA for the Storage Module that is problematic for you.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Jay Morrissette · May 9th, 2011, 06:04 PM

I think the 500GB drives get too hot. I have 7 recorders in a machine room that is normally very cool, but recently the room got warm, about 75 degrees, and 4 of the 7 recorders stopped recording. Now I have a huge fan blowing across them and they seem to be pretty stable.

We did have one drive that was failing frequently than the others. I noticed that is was hotter than the others. AJA replaced it and recording is much more predictable now.

There are two major design flaws with these units that make them very risky to use for live events:
1. The hard drives are encased in plastic with a single heat sink. The drives need airflow.
2. The recorder is designed to stop when there is even one single dropped frame! That's just plain stupid. On other AJA products, that is optional. A dropped frame can be caused by something as simple as bumping a cable. It's a shame that something so simple can cause you to lose the whole event rather than just a few frames.

~Jay

Jon Thorn · May 9th, 2011, 09:43 PM

Jay M. - We are considering implementing an option so that users can continue recordings during a "loss of video." However, even if this is implemented, it presents some potential pitfalls; once a loss of video occurs, there is no guarantee that the video signal will return with proper a/v sync, timecode values aren't likely to match the source after interruption, etc. The Ki Pro operates by locking to incoming video (when a recording is begun), so if that signal is interrupted, and you want the recording to continue, it will not have a way to lock to the signal a second time during that same recording. Because the Ki Pro was designed first and foremost for use alongside cameras, it was designed to alert the user to interrupted video signal and stop recordings. Think of this alert as the equivalent of the flashing "no tape" icon on a traditional tape-based camcorder.

If you feel that any of the 500GB Storage Modules that you are using are problematic, like the one you returned (which you note seems to operate better with the replacement), simply contact AJA Technical Support and they will replace the Storage Module for you.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

Bob Grant · May 31st, 2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Morrissette

I think the 500GB drives get too hot. I have 7 recorders in a machine room that is normally very cool, but recently the room got warm, about 75 degrees, and 4 of the 7 recorders stopped recording. Now I have a huge fan blowing across them and they seem to be pretty stable.

We did have one drive that was failing frequently than the others. I noticed that is was hotter than the others. AJA replaced it and recording is much more predictable now.

There are two major design flaws with these units that make them very risky to use for live events:
1. The hard drives are encased in plastic with a single heat sink. The drives need airflow.

2. The recorder is designed to stop when there is even one single dropped frame! That's just plain stupid. On other AJA products, that is optional. A dropped frame can be caused by something as simple as bumping a cable. It's a shame that something so simple can cause you to lose the whole event rather than just a few frames.

~Jay

We've had similar problems. Our 500GB drive caused major grief in an OB van and the 250GB was fine.

Investigation showed the problem was due to the rectangular hole that the latching pin engages had become worn down from a square edge to a ramp. As a result the 500GB module was not being held tight enough to maintain connection. A small bump or wiggle of the drive module would cause the unit to loose communication with the drive.

As far as I can see the plastic drive housing is not field replaceable. Some new form of "security" screw is used to hold the two halves togther. If I'm correct and the intent is that the unit has to be returned to AJA to have the $1 plastic housing replaced this does not seem the wisest piece of design.

Jon Thorn · May 31st, 2011, 11:02 PM

Bob G. - Well, the telling item in your comment about the 500GB drive is this:
"Investigation showed the problem was due to the rectangular hole that the latching pin engages had become worn down from a square edge to a ramp."

This happens when a Storage Module is removed - repeatedly - incorrectly. The incorrect removal usually happens because the media release button is not held in while removing the drive and the drive is forcibly removed from the unit. If the Storage Module is being forcibly removed, it's also possible that the SLOT button, which is used to gracefully unmount the media from the system's OS, is also not being used and is resulting in some issues. Just some things to consider when working with the Storage Modules.

If you are experiencing issues with any of your Storage Modules, AJA Technical Support can work with you to replace the units.

Hope this is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

December 14th, 2010, 10:35 PM	#1
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Bad KiPro drive? I am a new user of KiPro and I love it when it is working. But I purchased an additional 500GB disk module along with the 250GB disk that the KiPro comes with. So far, I have had no problems at all with the 250GB drive, but with the 500GB drive, the KiPro stops at random times with all the buttons flashing claiming that it could not continue recording. Now this is the same behavior reported elsewhere as being associated with incoming video data streams that are interrupted, noisy, or defective in some way, However, when I switch back to the 250GB drive, it is happy as a clam (with exactly the same video input from my Panasonic AW-HS50 video switcher). I am considering taking the drive back to my dealer and asking for a new one, but I have to look up the warranty on these things. Other than this problem with the 500GB drive, I am very pleased with my KiPro.

May 9th, 2011, 06:04 PM	#3
Jay Morrissette Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: L.A. California Posts: 61	Re: Bad KiPro drive? I think the 500GB drives get too hot. I have 7 recorders in a machine room that is normally very cool, but recently the room got warm, about 75 degrees, and 4 of the 7 recorders stopped recording. Now I have a huge fan blowing across them and they seem to be pretty stable. We did have one drive that was failing frequently than the others. I noticed that is was hotter than the others. AJA replaced it and recording is much more predictable now. There are two major design flaws with these units that make them very risky to use for live events: 1. The hard drives are encased in plastic with a single heat sink. The drives need airflow. 2. The recorder is designed to stop when there is even one single dropped frame! That's just plain stupid. On other AJA products, that is optional. A dropped frame can be caused by something as simple as bumping a cable. It's a shame that something so simple can cause you to lose the whole event rather than just a few frames. ~Jay

May 9th, 2011, 09:43 PM	#4
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: Bad KiPro drive? Jay M. - We are considering implementing an option so that users can continue recordings during a "loss of video." However, even if this is implemented, it presents some potential pitfalls; once a loss of video occurs, there is no guarantee that the video signal will return with proper a/v sync, timecode values aren't likely to match the source after interruption, etc. The Ki Pro operates by locking to incoming video (when a recording is begun), so if that signal is interrupted, and you want the recording to continue, it will not have a way to lock to the signal a second time during that same recording. Because the Ki Pro was designed first and foremost for use alongside cameras, it was designed to alert the user to interrupted video signal and stop recordings. Think of this alert as the equivalent of the flashing "no tape" icon on a traditional tape-based camcorder. If you feel that any of the 500GB Storage Modules that you are using are problematic, like the one you returned (which you note seems to operate better with the replacement), simply contact AJA Technical Support and they will replace the Storage Module for you. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

May 31st, 2011, 11:02 PM	#6
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Re: Bad KiPro drive? Bob G. - Well, the telling item in your comment about the 500GB drive is this: "Investigation showed the problem was due to the rectangular hole that the latching pin engages had become worn down from a square edge to a ramp." This happens when a Storage Module is removed - repeatedly - incorrectly. The incorrect removal usually happens because the media release button is not held in while removing the drive and the drive is forcibly removed from the unit. If the Storage Module is being forcibly removed, it's also possible that the SLOT button, which is used to gracefully unmount the media from the system's OS, is also not being used and is resulting in some issues. Just some things to consider when working with the Storage Modules. If you are experiencing issues with any of your Storage Modules, AJA Technical Support can work with you to replace the units. Hope this is helpful, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.

December 15th, 2010, 11:13 AM	#2
Jon Thorn AJA Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Grass Valley, CA Posts: 252	Richard C. - It is possible that you have a defective 500GB drive; of course, AJA doesn't manufacture the drive inside the Storage Module, and while we do test all of the products, it can sometimes happen that drives become problematic. I would recommend that you simply contact AJA technical support and they will issue you an RMA for the Storage Module that is problematic for you. Regards, Jon Thorn Product Manager AJA Video Systems, Inc.