Perfect picture on monitor, yet lousy on TV at DVinfo.net

Tracey Winning · April 8th, 2007, 06:28 AM

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help with this problem...

I shot hdv with my HC1 camera, but captured sd in premiere pro 2, edited and exported to dvd. The picture was perfectly clear and colours gorgeous and lots of light on my lcd monitor, great contrast. But I played the dvd on about 5 different televisions and got slightly different results on each, but almost all bad!! The picture was about 40% darker on 4/5 tv's and not crystal clear, in fact, not at all sharp. (and only on 1 tv which is 7 years old, was it excellent and sharp).

Why is that?? And how can I stop this happening? Is it in the export? The editing? I need to get my dvd's to be looking good on at least most tv's, and the extreme inconsistency has me most frustrated. It really is that bad.

Any explanations and suggestions to fix this problem in the future?

Tracey

(For the record....by adjusting people's tv's brightness level from 50% to 85%, I was able to get all the darkness out of it and made it significantly more watchable, but then, the colours were much less richer....)

Steven Gotz · April 8th, 2007, 08:35 PM

That should teach you not to trust the LCD monitor on the camera.

Edit with a TV attached, and you will see that your footage is not as bright as you thought.

Tracey Winning · April 8th, 2007, 10:23 PM

Yes, I could attach my TV. But the dvd/footage plays perfectly on it, exactly like on my lcd screen and the lcd monitor on my cam. I havent adjusted any setting on my tv either. It's just 4 other friends TVs that it is dark on. So I dont understand why the footage is perfect and light on one tv and not on the rest. Ironically it is of course MY own TV that I would attach for editing, but obviously that won't help bec it coincidentally seems to play the same colours as my lcd screen. Strange. Are some TV's dramatically better than others for use in editing? (I'm in Australia so PAL is the std).

Jiri Fiala · April 10th, 2007, 11:28 AM

Maybe your friends have badly adjusted TVs :o)

Ervin Farkas · April 10th, 2007, 02:34 PM

There are way too many variables in your picture (pun intended), it is almost impossible to pinpoint where did all this go wrong.

You need to go step by step and work out your workflow. Some simple steps would be: make a few minutes of video using the built-in SMPTE bars in PPRO, export that to DVD and calibrate your monitor; even if it's not a high quality professional monitor, if set up correctly, will help you a lot. Then test your own footage with this known good monitor.

Use the scopes in PPRO to see where your footage's luminance stays. Even if you're a beginner, the built-in help file will give you enough info to start.

Also keep in mind that shooting HD and converting in-camera will not give you the best SD result, especially as far as sharpness goes - dig a little around in the HD forum!

I hope this helps a little,

Tracey Winning · April 12th, 2007, 05:06 AM

Thanks for the suggestions Ervin.

I checked the colour bar in ppro and it is an ntsc colour bar. However, on my Sony camera there is what I imagine is a PAL colour bar as it is different. I exported the colour bar from my video cam to Ppro timeline and I can burn it to DVD. But then I have no idea how to calibrate the monitor. I have looked this up and asked around but all the info is for calibrating an NTSC monitor not a PAL one and it appears there is quite a different method. If you have any idea on step by step calibrating, PLEASE let me know, as i am frustratingly in the dark on this one.

You also mentioned using the scopes in PPRO to see where my footage luminance lies. You could please explain exactly what you mean by this, as I would like to try everything you have suggested. (I have used the colour correcting tools in ppro to adjust a few scenes, but thats all, as I only recently began using ppro).

Thanks Ervin!

Graham Hickling · April 12th, 2007, 08:26 AM

There are some distinct differences between "normal" black levels in PAL and NTSC. Moving between the two has fouled me up in the past.

So just to clarify your original post .... you exported from your HC1 as PAL DV, edited in a PAL DV project, made a PAL DVD, and played it back on various PAL televisions? Is that correct?

Tracey Winning · April 12th, 2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

So just to clarify your original post .... you exported from your HC1 as PAL DV, edited in a PAL DV project, made a PAL DVD, and played it back on various PAL televisions? Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.

Tracey Winning · April 16th, 2007, 07:11 AM

Re: monitor calibration-pal.

I just tried calibrating my monitor using Adobe Gamma....and that has gone some way in fixing my problem, thank goodness. Not yet there, but at least now what I see on my lcd screen is getting significantly closer to what I see on everyone else's pal tv when I slide in my dvd.

Richard Wakefield · April 17th, 2007, 11:31 AM

I used to love watching my DVDs on my old TV, but as soon as i try it on two very different flat screens (one v.expensive, one not so expensive), the video seems degraded, and the contrast much worse.

and the same happens when i watch normal DVDs too. i think the problem is these new HD-ready flatscreens, not the DVD or the way u edit.

also, i refused to ever buy a plasma TV coz they just give that annoying 'compress-pixel' feel to everything too!

is that what ur problem is too? u didn't say what the new TVs were?

Tracey Winning · April 17th, 2007, 10:14 PM

Interesting comments Richard. The DVD played beautifully on my old TV and looked great. The other TV's were flatscreen TV's, 2 were relatively new, and one was a lot older. The footage looked awful on the plasma (awful to my eyes anyway!). Perhaps the problem may lie at least partly with these other tv's. But that then becomes my problem if I want to distribute dvd's, and the only way people can get the true colours is by dramatically adjusting brightness etc on their tv's.

Anyway, I have adjusted my monitor using Adobe Gamma, so that the pic I now get on my monitor is the same dark pic that most people seem to have on their tv when I play my DVD. I am now going to edit according to that and adjust the pic brightness etc on each clip with PPro2 and then it should play at least with the right colours and brightness (close enough anyhow).

I might buy a new flat screen tv and attach it to check my footage while editing too. Interestingly, I have just noticed that my old tv that plays the colours perfectly is actually an NTSC tv (or so it says in small letters on the tv), while everyone's else's is not. I wonder if this is why my tv played perfect colours.

April 8th, 2007, 06:28 AM	#1
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	Perfect picture on monitor, yet lousy on TV Hi, I wonder if anyone can help with this problem... I shot hdv with my HC1 camera, but captured sd in premiere pro 2, edited and exported to dvd. The picture was perfectly clear and colours gorgeous and lots of light on my lcd monitor, great contrast. But I played the dvd on about 5 different televisions and got slightly different results on each, but almost all bad!! The picture was about 40% darker on 4/5 tv's and not crystal clear, in fact, not at all sharp. (and only on 1 tv which is 7 years old, was it excellent and sharp). Why is that?? And how can I stop this happening? Is it in the export? The editing? I need to get my dvd's to be looking good on at least most tv's, and the extreme inconsistency has me most frustrated. It really is that bad. Any explanations and suggestions to fix this problem in the future? Tracey (For the record....by adjusting people's tv's brightness level from 50% to 85%, I was able to get all the darkness out of it and made it significantly more watchable, but then, the colours were much less richer....)

April 8th, 2007, 08:35 PM	#2
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	That should teach you not to trust the LCD monitor on the camera. Edit with a TV attached, and you will see that your footage is not as bright as you thought. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

April 10th, 2007, 02:34 PM	#5
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	Go step by step There are way too many variables in your picture (pun intended), it is almost impossible to pinpoint where did all this go wrong. You need to go step by step and work out your workflow. Some simple steps would be: make a few minutes of video using the built-in SMPTE bars in PPRO, export that to DVD and calibrate your monitor; even if it's not a high quality professional monitor, if set up correctly, will help you a lot. Then test your own footage with this known good monitor. Use the scopes in PPRO to see where your footage's luminance stays. Even if you're a beginner, the built-in help file will give you enough info to start. Also keep in mind that shooting HD and converting in-camera will not give you the best SD result, especially as far as sharpness goes - dig a little around in the HD forum! I hope this helps a little, __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

April 16th, 2007, 07:11 AM	#9
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	Monitor calibration Re: monitor calibration-pal. I just tried calibrating my monitor using Adobe Gamma....and that has gone some way in fixing my problem, thank goodness. Not yet there, but at least now what I see on my lcd screen is getting significantly closer to what I see on everyone else's pal tv when I slide in my dvd.

April 8th, 2007, 10:23 PM	#3
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	Yes, I could attach my TV. But the dvd/footage plays perfectly on it, exactly like on my lcd screen and the lcd monitor on my cam. I havent adjusted any setting on my tv either. It's just 4 other friends TVs that it is dark on. So I dont understand why the footage is perfect and light on one tv and not on the rest. Ironically it is of course MY own TV that I would attach for editing, but obviously that won't help bec it coincidentally seems to play the same colours as my lcd screen. Strange. Are some TV's dramatically better than others for use in editing? (I'm in Australia so PAL is the std).

April 10th, 2007, 11:28 AM	#4
Jiri Fiala Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brno Czech Republic Posts: 453	Maybe your friends have badly adjusted TVs :o)

April 12th, 2007, 05:06 AM	#6
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	Thanks for the suggestions Ervin. I checked the colour bar in ppro and it is an ntsc colour bar. However, on my Sony camera there is what I imagine is a PAL colour bar as it is different. I exported the colour bar from my video cam to Ppro timeline and I can burn it to DVD. But then I have no idea how to calibrate the monitor. I have looked this up and asked around but all the info is for calibrating an NTSC monitor not a PAL one and it appears there is quite a different method. If you have any idea on step by step calibrating, PLEASE let me know, as i am frustratingly in the dark on this one. You also mentioned using the scopes in PPRO to see where my footage luminance lies. You could please explain exactly what you mean by this, as I would like to try everything you have suggested. (I have used the colour correcting tools in ppro to adjust a few scenes, but thats all, as I only recently began using ppro). Thanks Ervin!

April 12th, 2007, 08:26 AM	#7
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	There are some distinct differences between "normal" black levels in PAL and NTSC. Moving between the two has fouled me up in the past. So just to clarify your original post .... you exported from your HC1 as PAL DV, edited in a PAL DV project, made a PAL DVD, and played it back on various PAL televisions? Is that correct?

April 17th, 2007, 11:31 AM	#10
Richard Wakefield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Surrey, UK Posts: 680	I used to love watching my DVDs on my old TV, but as soon as i try it on two very different flat screens (one v.expensive, one not so expensive), the video seems degraded, and the contrast much worse. and the same happens when i watch normal DVDs too. i think the problem is these new HD-ready flatscreens, not the DVD or the way u edit. also, i refused to ever buy a plasma TV coz they just give that annoying 'compress-pixel' feel to everything too! is that what ur problem is too? u didn't say what the new TVs were?

April 17th, 2007, 10:14 PM	#11
Tracey Winning Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne and Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 31	Interesting comments Richard. The DVD played beautifully on my old TV and looked great. The other TV's were flatscreen TV's, 2 were relatively new, and one was a lot older. The footage looked awful on the plasma (awful to my eyes anyway!). Perhaps the problem may lie at least partly with these other tv's. But that then becomes my problem if I want to distribute dvd's, and the only way people can get the true colours is by dramatically adjusting brightness etc on their tv's. Anyway, I have adjusted my monitor using Adobe Gamma, so that the pic I now get on my monitor is the same dark pic that most people seem to have on their tv when I play my DVD. I am now going to edit according to that and adjust the pic brightness etc on each clip with PPro2 and then it should play at least with the right colours and brightness (close enough anyhow). I might buy a new flat screen tv and attach it to check my footage while editing too. Interestingly, I have just noticed that my old tv that plays the colours perfectly is actually an NTSC tv (or so it says in small letters on the tv), while everyone's else's is not. I wonder if this is why my tv played perfect colours.