No PAL aspect ratio for 24p?

[Aviv Hallale]

I work on PAL and with Premeire Pro 2.0, under the 24p project preset, there's no setting for a PAL aspect ratio, only NTSC. Even under custom settings, PAL DV isn't an option. Is there a reason to this?

Also, the PAL DV aspect ratio for standard is listed as 1.067...Shouldn't it be 1.33:1?

[Jarrod Whaley]

The reason for this of course is that 24p is incompatible with PAL. All progressive PAL cameras shoot 25p, because 24 fps is not easy to fit into an interlaced video stream @ 50hz--which is what PAL is. So in PAL, your only option is 25p.

Also note that progressive PAL doesn't need any particular project settings other than just regular old PAL, because 25p fits into a PAL-standard 50i cadence exactly with no need for pulldown or other considerations. So edit 25p in a regular interlaced PAL project.

The aspect ratio of PAL, strictly speaking, is 1.25. 720/576=1.25. My guess (since I haven't used Premiere in years) is that the 1.067 setting you're seeing is the pixel aspect ratio that Premiere wants to use. Pixel aspect ratio is another thing entirely than image aspect ratio. Still, since Vegas uses a 1.0926 pixel aspect ratio for PAL, I'm not sure why Premiere would use a different one... maybe the PAR of 1.067 is for preview only? Any users of Premiere in PAL-land want to chime in?

[Aviv Hallale]

Thanks Jarrod,

So if working with 25p in an interlaced project setting, do I need to select it's field order as Progressive when exporting?

[Jarrod Whaley]

Originally Posted by Aviv Hallale

Thanks Jarrod,

So if working with 25p in an interlaced project setting, do I need to select it's field order as Progressive when exporting?

No, you'll actually render as interlaced PAL so you can go back to DV tape and/or play back on a regular TV. Don't worry, it's still progressive. You're just fitting a 25p stream into a 50i stream for playback purposes. That's what progressive PAL cameras do when shooting, too.

[Frank Hool]

Yes, pixel aspect ratio is different thing than image aspect ratio but in a way pixel aspect ratio affects image aspect ratio but not visa versa. 1.0 pixel aspect ratio means that pixel is ideal square shaped. In this case image aspect ratio in pixels is exactly the same as measured in dimensional units - like inches or mm. In case You have different than 1.0 pixel aspect ratio, say 1.067 then there's a difference in image aspect ratio measured in pixels and measured in dimensional units.
So if You got Frame size: 720h 576v (1.067) and 720h 576v (1.0). You got obviously same pixel aspect ratio but slightly different width of image in real dimensions.

see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_aspect_ratio

[Aviv Hallale]

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

No, you'll actually render as interlaced PAL so you can go back to DV tape and/or play back on a regular TV. Don't worry, it's still progressive. You're just fitting a 25p stream into a 50i stream for playback purposes. That's what progressive PAL cameras do when shooting, too.

Thanks again :)

When would one export with the "Deinterlace" (at the top left of the export settings screen) or "Progressive" (under field options) settings? Are these pretty much the same thing?

I typically export with Lower Fields first, which seems to be the default...Is there a noticeable difference between this and Upper Fields first?

[Graham Hickling]

PAL footage with square pixels is 768x576 ... the old mjpeg capture cards used this. PAL DV is 720 x 576, and so requires non-square pixels to achieve a 4:3 viewing ratio.

[Aviv Hallale]

Ok now, this is where things get confusing for me. I'm going to be DoP on a first year student movie in a few weeks and I'll be renting a DVX100 from our gearhouse. Because the camera is PAL standard, is the Cinema mode on it just 25p, while the NTSC version is 24p? If the PAL camera's Cinema mode shoots in 24p too, than do I just import the footage into a normal PAL project in Premiere, or a 24p one that has NTSC resolution? :S

I'm assuming that it's easier to achieve a film look with PAL by simply deinterlacing it in order to make it progressive, seeing as 25fps is a lot closer to 24 than 30.

Is deinterlaced and progressive the same thing? In Premiere's export settings there's an option to Deinterlace and an option to use progressive as the field order.

[Seun Osewa]

All you need to know about PAL/NTSC aspect ratios:
http://www.mir.com/DMG/aspect.html