Adobe Premiere & Premiere Pro discussions from 2004

Lauri Kettunen · September 6th, 2004, 11:51 PM

<<<The only way that I can think of how to do this at the moment would be:

Edit project in 16x9
Start a new project 4x3 and import the 16x9 project into the 4x3 (blank) project.>>>

Ed, That's also the only solution I'm able to figure out. It is bit surprising that there is no direct way to change the format. Though, if so, understandable for Premiere is built in a certain way.

<<< If so, just render
out to a 16:9. Start a new 4:3 project and load that file. Fix
the aspect ratio and your done.>>>

Rob, Thanks, yes, this is another solution, but I would like to avoid rendering for it means the 4:3 material is first extrapolated to 16:9 and then interpolated back to letterboxed 4:3. The quality is better if the 4:3 material is only cropped.

Rob Lohman · September 7th, 2004, 04:57 AM

AVI is what we call a container format (like QuickTime .MOV for
example). It is a file format standard that supports multiple
CODECS that determine how the actual data inside the file is
encoded and thus must be decoded.

The two most used are uncompressed and DV.

However, most TV and analog capture cards and most photo
camera's as well use MJPEG. Per default (depends on your
Windows version) Windows usually DOES NOT have an MJPEG
codec installed.

Your camera should've come with a codec to display the movies.
So make sure you install your camera tools.

If that still doesn't work you either need to get an MJPEG codec
or another one. Let us know if you get it to work or not. Otherwise
we may need to look at what codec has been used to encode
your AVI file (there are tools for this).

Rob Lohman · September 7th, 2004, 05:21 AM

Now I'm missing the point I think <g>

Why would you have 4:3 footage in a 16:9 project? That doesn't
make much sense really.

Anyway, I downloaded the demo version of PPro 1.5 and it seems
you can't change the settings after the fact indeed (doh!).

Anyway, the earlier tip seems to work fine. Start a new 4:3
project and IMPORT (file -> Import) your older 16:9 project.
You will get another sequence which you can open and your
edit should be in there but now for a 4:3 project.

Lauri Kettunen · September 7th, 2004, 06:19 AM

<<<Why would you have 4:3 footage in a 16:9 project? That doesn't make much sense really.-->>>

Well, for example, I have some material of some rare birds which is not repeatable (or it may takes years). So, I have to rely on my archieve material. Accordingly, if the new document is in 16:9 format, I have to include and stretch old 4:3 footages in a 16:9 project.

Rob Lohman · September 7th, 2004, 06:23 AM

Okay, but in the end it won't matter much because if the project
also has 16:9 footage you will need to letterbox it and therefore
you will not loose any information by going out to a 16:9 file
anyway.

I've edited my previous post with my own test. So in the end
you have two ways:

1) render out to a new file (I don't see how this will result in a loss if you are going to letterbox the 4:3 project anyway)

2) import your old project in your new one

Ed Smith · September 7th, 2004, 08:59 AM

If you are just using 4:3 footage in a 16x9 project...

What I would do is just maintain the aspect ratio on the 4:3 clips, this way you will get pillar boxes on the 4:3 material when viewed on a widescreen TV.

Lauri Kettunen · September 7th, 2004, 09:41 AM

<<<-- import your old project in your new one -->>>

Rob, that's what I'll probably do, thanks.

This is just a detail, though an interesting one about interpolation and extrapolation: Let's talk of PAL format meaning the resolution is 720 x 576. Now, when a 4:3 footage is imported into a 16:9 project one has to stretch the footage in the vertical direction. This means that (if I remember right) 432 horizontal lines are used to generate 576 lines.

Now, if such a 16:9 project is rendered and taken into a 4:3 project and then aspect ratio is maintained, the question is, does one get (precisely) the same 432 horizontal lines which one started from at the first place? I suspect one doesn't, which should be verifiable by repeating the process several times.

(Whether such hairsplitting makes sense is a good question, especially if there is no observable difference.)

Dwight Flynn · September 7th, 2004, 12:03 PM

You can try Atlantis from dvfilm.com, or Algolith's Content Adaptive Scaler (CAS) which is a lot more expensive.

Steven Gotz · September 7th, 2004, 02:51 PM

http://www.morgan-multimedia.com/

Dmitry Yun · September 7th, 2004, 04:09 PM

Hi, I have Premier 6.5 and when I export a movie as a regular AVI file, my sound is perfect but, when I export the avi through adobe mpeg encoder as an NTSC/MPEG2 I get this hissing/whistling sound. It's subtle BUT IT HURTS MY EARS!!! does anyone have a suggestion on the settings of my MPEG2 import properties? or anything that can help me get rid of this HISS?

Thanks

Dan Euritt · September 7th, 2004, 09:45 PM

it would be the mpeg2 export properties within the mainconcept encoder that you are concerned with... specifically, it would help if you could tell us what the audio settings are.

Dan Euritt · September 7th, 2004, 09:50 PM

i just used the procoder plugin for converting an ntsc dv movie into pal mpeg2(dvd), within premiere 6.5... it rocked, nothing else even comes close for anywhere near the money.

i'm sending it to england this week to get some pal-qualified opinions, but it sure looked good on the pc monitor! i was also able to play it on the ntsc dvd/tv set here at the house.

most people don't know it, but pal/ntsc is somewhat interchangeable, especially if you live in a pal country like australia... many pal dvd players over there will play ntsc, the real question is how well the pal tv set can handle it... go ahead and make up an ntsc dvd, then see how it works over there.

the pal conversion i played here showed some dropped frames on the high-action scenes, but it looked a lot better than i thought it would.

Dmitry Yun · September 7th, 2004, 09:58 PM

to tell you the truth I've already tried every combination possible and I was just wondering if there are any other possible solutions. Thanks.

Steven Gotz · September 7th, 2004, 10:30 PM

My guess is that the audio is too loud. Take it down a notch to avoid clipping. Then try again. AVI is able to tolerate louder audio than an MPEG is.

Lauri Kettunen · September 8th, 2004, 12:47 AM

I have no experience of conversion from NTSC to PAL, but the other way around from PAL to NTSC-DVD I've got the best result with Ulead DVD workshop. The Ulead DVD workshop reads in an avi file and converts that directly to mpeg2 on a DVD. Maybe it's worth of trying for then you avoid one unnecessary step of rendering your original NTSC material to dv-format in PAL.

September 7th, 2004, 04:57 AM	#1007
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	AVI is what we call a container format (like QuickTime .MOV for example). It is a file format standard that supports multiple CODECS that determine how the actual data inside the file is encoded and thus must be decoded. The two most used are uncompressed and DV. However, most TV and analog capture cards and most photo camera's as well use MJPEG. Per default (depends on your Windows version) Windows usually DOES NOT have an MJPEG codec installed. Your camera should've come with a codec to display the movies. So make sure you install your camera tools. If that still doesn't work you either need to get an MJPEG codec or another one. Let us know if you get it to work or not. Otherwise we may need to look at what codec has been used to encode your AVI file (there are tools for this). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 7th, 2004, 05:21 AM	#1008
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Now I'm missing the point I think <g> Why would you have 4:3 footage in a 16:9 project? That doesn't make much sense really. Anyway, I downloaded the demo version of PPro 1.5 and it seems you can't change the settings after the fact indeed (doh!). Anyway, the earlier tip seems to work fine. Start a new 4:3 project and IMPORT (file -> Import) your older 16:9 project. You will get another sequence which you can open and your edit should be in there but now for a 4:3 project. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 7th, 2004, 06:23 AM	#1010
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Okay, but in the end it won't matter much because if the project also has 16:9 footage you will need to letterbox it and therefore you will not loose any information by going out to a 16:9 file anyway. I've edited my previous post with my own test. So in the end you have two ways: 1) render out to a new file (I don't see how this will result in a loss if you are going to letterbox the 4:3 project anyway) 2) import your old project in your new one __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 7th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#1011
Ed Smith Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hampshire, England Posts: 1,545	If you are just using 4:3 footage in a 16x9 project... What I would do is just maintain the aspect ratio on the 4:3 clips, this way you will get pillar boxes on the 4:3 material when viewed on a widescreen TV. __________________ Ed Smith Hampshire, UK Good things come to those who wait My Skiing web www.Frostytour.co.uk For quick answers Search dvinfo.net \| The best in the business: dvinfo.net Sponsors

September 7th, 2004, 04:09 PM	#1015
Dmitry Yun Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 170	MPEG2 export, AUDIO problem Hi, I have Premier 6.5 and when I export a movie as a regular AVI file, my sound is perfect but, when I export the avi through adobe mpeg encoder as an NTSC/MPEG2 I get this hissing/whistling sound. It's subtle BUT IT HURTS MY EARS!!! does anyone have a suggestion on the settings of my MPEG2 import properties? or anything that can help me get rid of this HISS? Thanks

September 6th, 2004, 11:51 PM	#1006
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	<<<The only way that I can think of how to do this at the moment would be: Edit project in 16x9 Start a new project 4x3 and import the 16x9 project into the 4x3 (blank) project.>>> Ed, That's also the only solution I'm able to figure out. It is bit surprising that there is no direct way to change the format. Though, if so, understandable for Premiere is built in a certain way. <<< If so, just render out to a 16:9. Start a new 4:3 project and load that file. Fix the aspect ratio and your done.>>> Rob, Thanks, yes, this is another solution, but I would like to avoid rendering for it means the 4:3 material is first extrapolated to 16:9 and then interpolated back to letterboxed 4:3. The quality is better if the 4:3 material is only cropped.

September 7th, 2004, 06:19 AM	#1009
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	<<<Why would you have 4:3 footage in a 16:9 project? That doesn't make much sense really.-->>> Well, for example, I have some material of some rare birds which is not repeatable (or it may takes years). So, I have to rely on my archieve material. Accordingly, if the new document is in 16:9 format, I have to include and stretch old 4:3 footages in a 16:9 project.

September 7th, 2004, 09:41 AM	#1012
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	<<<-- import your old project in your new one -->>> Rob, that's what I'll probably do, thanks. This is just a detail, though an interesting one about interpolation and extrapolation: Let's talk of PAL format meaning the resolution is 720 x 576. Now, when a 4:3 footage is imported into a 16:9 project one has to stretch the footage in the vertical direction. This means that (if I remember right) 432 horizontal lines are used to generate 576 lines. Now, if such a 16:9 project is rendered and taken into a 4:3 project and then aspect ratio is maintained, the question is, does one get (precisely) the same 432 horizontal lines which one started from at the first place? I suspect one doesn't, which should be verifiable by repeating the process several times. (Whether such hairsplitting makes sense is a good question, especially if there is no observable difference.)

September 7th, 2004, 12:03 PM	#1013
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	You can try Atlantis from dvfilm.com, or Algolith's Content Adaptive Scaler (CAS) which is a lot more expensive.

September 7th, 2004, 02:51 PM	#1014
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	http://www.morgan-multimedia.com/

September 7th, 2004, 09:45 PM	#1016
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	it would be the mpeg2 export properties within the mainconcept encoder that you are concerned with... specifically, it would help if you could tell us what the audio settings are.

September 7th, 2004, 09:50 PM	#1017
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i just used the procoder plugin for converting an ntsc dv movie into pal mpeg2(dvd), within premiere 6.5... it rocked, nothing else even comes close for anywhere near the money. i'm sending it to england this week to get some pal-qualified opinions, but it sure looked good on the pc monitor! i was also able to play it on the ntsc dvd/tv set here at the house. most people don't know it, but pal/ntsc is somewhat interchangeable, especially if you live in a pal country like australia... many pal dvd players over there will play ntsc, the real question is how well the pal tv set can handle it... go ahead and make up an ntsc dvd, then see how it works over there. the pal conversion i played here showed some dropped frames on the high-action scenes, but it looked a lot better than i thought it would.

September 7th, 2004, 09:58 PM	#1018
Dmitry Yun Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 170	to tell you the truth I've already tried every combination possible and I was just wondering if there are any other possible solutions. Thanks.

September 7th, 2004, 10:30 PM	#1019
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	My guess is that the audio is too loud. Take it down a notch to avoid clipping. Then try again. AVI is able to tolerate louder audio than an MPEG is.

September 8th, 2004, 12:47 AM	#1020
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	I have no experience of conversion from NTSC to PAL, but the other way around from PAL to NTSC-DVD I've got the best result with Ulead DVD workshop. The Ulead DVD workshop reads in an avi file and converts that directly to mpeg2 on a DVD. Maybe it's worth of trying for then you avoid one unnecessary step of rendering your original NTSC material to dv-format in PAL.