Is Premiere really THAT bad?

Saturnin Kondratiew · April 29th, 2006, 07:50 PM

i've been editing a pretty big project with both 60i and 24p footage, i actually made a post about it long time ago and bout the work around i had to figure out so i could use both 24p/60i on same timeline.

YES 24p on a 60I timeline is screwd.
YES 60i on a 24p timeline will work if an effect such as CC is added to the 60i footage.

not sure what the big problem is here guys, lol.

Giroud Francois · April 30th, 2006, 05:31 AM

I do not understand your point.
you tell us that premiere 1.5 is the only program not to work as you need.
-So use one of these many other, especially you mentioned you got 2 of them.

Then a partial answer has been provided to you(upgrade to PP2).
again you ignored this advice and nailed about silly thing about PP 1.5 support and free patch and so on...
As far As i know the numerous version of MAC OS upgrades always have been the answer to the "it dos not work" question. And there were not free.
And sometime the upgrade make it even worse.
And i do not know real professional application that has free upgrade on major version change. So you make a wrong trial to Adobe.

And finally if you are so convinced that premiere 1.5 is not what you need, do you think your long arguing on this forum will change anything ?
An if finally the message is to tell us how great it FCP, i think we got the message.

Ash Greyson · May 1st, 2006, 03:38 PM

Uhhh... project was already loaded in Premiere... tapes were gone, I had to use Premiere to do it... Again, this is not an upgrade or 24p issue, it is an admitted BUG that Adobe never fixed, call them if you like. My issue is that a company would leave a $500 program with an unaddressed bug. This is not a niche issue, check the adobe forums! Many people left adobe for Vegas!

All I wanted to do was edit 29.97 footage in a 29.97 timeline, the BUG was that PP 1.5 incorrectly interpreted the 29.97 footage as 24P 2:3:3:2 and incorrectly built the "C" frame, meaning every had to be rendered and it looked TERRIBLE. You can work in a 24P timeline but no edit can start on the "C" frame... that is the workaround. As stated a billion times, this is a bug that ONLY PP 1.5 has... no other program that will edit DV exhibits the issue. I cant make it any clearer.

I use all edit platforms (as editor or producer), FCP, Premiere, Vegas, Avid... they all have pluses and minuses, there is not one that is THE best. Prem Pro 2.0 is vastly improved over 1.5, especially when it comes to handling various formats where it HAS been dead last!

ash =o)

Saturnin Kondratiew · May 1st, 2006, 03:44 PM

i dont mean to be beating on a dead horse but how the hell can pro 1.5 screw up 29 footage on a 29 timeline???? i've been using pro 1.5 for a few years and never had that issue.

Steven Gotz · May 1st, 2006, 04:13 PM

And why didn't you just tell it to interpret the footage as 29.97?

Ash Greyson · May 2nd, 2006, 03:34 PM

I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. If you shoot 2:3 pulldown where the 24p is wrapped in a normal 29.97 stream, Premiere incorrectly will see this as 24P 2:3:3:2 footage. If you force premiere to see it as 29.97, it will improperly interpret it and the speed will be off. 24P footage with IN CAMERA pull-up is no different than regular 60i footage, PP 1.5 has a bug that improperly interprets the 29.97 footage as 2:3:3:2 24P footage... As noted a million times now, PP 1.5 is the only editor that does this.

ash =o)

Aanarav Sareen · May 2nd, 2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

Uhhh... project was already loaded in Premiere... tapes were gone, I had to use Premiere to do it... Again, this is not an upgrade or 24p issue, it is an admitted BUG that Adobe never fixed, call them if you like. My issue is that a company would leave a $500 program

It's $850 :-)

Steven Gotz · May 2nd, 2006, 07:24 PM

So upgrade already. I'm sorry Ash. I just don't see the point in complaining about outdated software. We all site around and bitch about software, Adobe fixes it. So it is time to complain about new stuff.

Ash Greyson · May 2nd, 2006, 08:16 PM

If you read everything you will see I did get an upgrade for free from Adobe =o) All I can figure is that very very few DVX and XL2 users are using PP 1.5 because it does not play well with the 2:3 footage those cameras use. For the very last time, this was a known and admitted bug that was never addressed by Adobe. And for the very last time, PP 1.5 is the only DV editor that will not handle 2:3 footage. They never found a way to fix it via a patch... if you want that feature either use PP 1.0 or PP 2.0

ash =o)

Brendan Marnell · May 8th, 2006, 04:53 PM

1. Is it just me being thick and has everyone else found a way of relating the DVD reference numbers in the PPro 1.5 Index of the Studio Techniques Manual to the accompanying DVD? Total Training Videos for 1.5 don't help me much on that subject either.
2. Did anyone else notice that the same Manual ignores the basics of exporting and so does the DVD? That's 500 pages + User Guide Supplement + 11 hours of JR on video missing or obscuring fundamental aspects of How to manage Output.
Oh yes, they are covered in the 2003 edition of PPro, but how does one become inspired to discover that? It took me bloody hours over several months!

3. I wonder what's the story with PPro 2 Manuals on these points? It's ok for you who have been at this for years but for beginners like me it seems to amount to arrogance.

April 29th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#61
Saturnin Kondratiew Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: vancouver Posts: 310	i've been editing a pretty big project with both 60i and 24p footage, i actually made a post about it long time ago and bout the work around i had to figure out so i could use both 24p/60i on same timeline. YES 24p on a 60I timeline is screwd. YES 60i on a 24p timeline will work if an effect such as CC is added to the 60i footage. not sure what the big problem is here guys, lol. __________________ My documentaries - http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com

May 1st, 2006, 03:44 PM	#64
Saturnin Kondratiew Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: vancouver Posts: 310	i dont mean to be beating on a dead horse but how the hell can pro 1.5 screw up 29 footage on a 29 timeline???? i've been using pro 1.5 for a few years and never had that issue. __________________ My documentaries - http://www.asphaltjunkiez.com

May 1st, 2006, 04:13 PM	#65
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	And why didn't you just tell it to interpret the footage as 29.97? __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

May 2nd, 2006, 07:24 PM	#68
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	So upgrade already. I'm sorry Ash. I just don't see the point in complaining about outdated software. We all site around and bitch about software, Adobe fixes it. So it is time to complain about new stuff. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

May 8th, 2006, 04:53 PM	#70
Brendan Marnell Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 938	Questions about PPro ??? 1. Is it just me being thick and has everyone else found a way of relating the DVD reference numbers in the PPro 1.5 Index of the Studio Techniques Manual to the accompanying DVD? Total Training Videos for 1.5 don't help me much on that subject either. 2. Did anyone else notice that the same Manual ignores the basics of exporting and so does the DVD? That's 500 pages + User Guide Supplement + 11 hours of JR on video missing or obscuring fundamental aspects of How to manage Output. Oh yes, they are covered in the 2003 edition of PPro, but how does one become inspired to discover that? It took me bloody hours over several months! 3. I wonder what's the story with PPro 2 Manuals on these points? It's ok for you who have been at this for years but for beginners like me it seems to amount to arrogance.

April 30th, 2006, 05:31 AM	#62
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	I do not understand your point. you tell us that premiere 1.5 is the only program not to work as you need. -So use one of these many other, especially you mentioned you got 2 of them. Then a partial answer has been provided to you(upgrade to PP2). again you ignored this advice and nailed about silly thing about PP 1.5 support and free patch and so on... As far As i know the numerous version of MAC OS upgrades always have been the answer to the "it dos not work" question. And there were not free. And sometime the upgrade make it even worse. And i do not know real professional application that has free upgrade on major version change. So you make a wrong trial to Adobe. And finally if you are so convinced that premiere 1.5 is not what you need, do you think your long arguing on this forum will change anything ? An if finally the message is to tell us how great it FCP, i think we got the message.

May 1st, 2006, 03:38 PM	#63
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Uhhh... project was already loaded in Premiere... tapes were gone, I had to use Premiere to do it... Again, this is not an upgrade or 24p issue, it is an admitted BUG that Adobe never fixed, call them if you like. My issue is that a company would leave a $500 program with an unaddressed bug. This is not a niche issue, check the adobe forums! Many people left adobe for Vegas! All I wanted to do was edit 29.97 footage in a 29.97 timeline, the BUG was that PP 1.5 incorrectly interpreted the 29.97 footage as 24P 2:3:3:2 and incorrectly built the "C" frame, meaning every had to be rendered and it looked TERRIBLE. You can work in a 24P timeline but no edit can start on the "C" frame... that is the workaround. As stated a billion times, this is a bug that ONLY PP 1.5 has... no other program that will edit DV exhibits the issue. I cant make it any clearer. I use all edit platforms (as editor or producer), FCP, Premiere, Vegas, Avid... they all have pluses and minuses, there is not one that is THE best. Prem Pro 2.0 is vastly improved over 1.5, especially when it comes to handling various formats where it HAS been dead last! ash =o)

May 2nd, 2006, 03:34 PM	#66
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I am not sure why this is so hard to understand. If you shoot 2:3 pulldown where the 24p is wrapped in a normal 29.97 stream, Premiere incorrectly will see this as 24P 2:3:3:2 footage. If you force premiere to see it as 29.97, it will improperly interpret it and the speed will be off. 24P footage with IN CAMERA pull-up is no different than regular 60i footage, PP 1.5 has a bug that improperly interprets the 29.97 footage as 2:3:3:2 24P footage... As noted a million times now, PP 1.5 is the only editor that does this. ash =o)

May 2nd, 2006, 08:16 PM	#69
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	If you read everything you will see I did get an upgrade for free from Adobe =o) All I can figure is that very very few DVX and XL2 users are using PP 1.5 because it does not play well with the 2:3 footage those cameras use. For the very last time, this was a known and admitted bug that was never addressed by Adobe. And for the very last time, PP 1.5 is the only DV editor that will not handle 2:3 footage. They never found a way to fix it via a patch... if you want that feature either use PP 1.0 or PP 2.0 ash =o)