Is Premiere really THAT bad?

Dionyssios Chalkias · April 24th, 2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Your rants against PP1.5 are kind of like being upset at Microsoft because they haven't issued a patch to DOS 3.2 to let it run Windows Media Player.

Microsoft still fully supports Windows 2000 and Windows NT, and sort of still supports older products too. We are talking about professional tools here. Any software corporation is bound by law to fully support, document and fix their products (if they are defective) for 10 years from the date of release. I've had problems with Adobe not supporting FrameMaker as a multi-platform multi-language application anymore in a huge paneuropean documentation production chain, and all they had to say was 'you should upgrade to InDesign' which was not technically feasible...

Chris Barcellos · April 24th, 2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dionyssios Chalkias

Microsoft still fully supports Windows 2000 and Windows NT, and sort of still supports older products too. We are talking about professional tools here. Any software corporation is bound by law to fully support, document and fix their products (if they are defective) for 10 years from the date of release. I've had problems with Adobe not supporting FrameMaker as a multi-platform multi-language application anymore in a huge paneuropean documentation production chain, and all they had to say was 'you should upgrade to InDesign' which was not technically feasible...

But if a product never purports to do something like 24p, does that mean they have to create a new module to do so ? What law are you referring to ?

David Jimerson · April 25th, 2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

And Vegas 5, didn't either, did it ?

Yes. Fully supported 24p since version 4. But as for editing 24p in a 60i stream, always.

Ash Greyson · April 26th, 2006, 01:58 AM

Wow... focus in here fellas... forget 24P... The WHOLE IDEA of 2:3 in camera 24p is that it can be edited natively in a 29.97 timeline... otherwise you would shoot in 2:3:3:2... you with me? I didnt WANT to edit in 24P! I didnt WANT to remove pulldown frames!

OK... so... I had footage shot at 29.97 with in-camera 2:3 pulldown that I wanted to capture and edit in a 29.97 timeline. 24P ONLY became a factor because Premiere IMPROPERLY and automatically detected the footage as 2:3:3:2 pulldown, extracted the extra frames and improperly rebuilt the "C" frame, see here http://members.aol.com/ashvid/Cframe.jpg this is a known BUG... still with me?

Premiere 1.5 is THE ONLY DV EDIT PROGRAM that does this. All I wanted to do is capture NATIVE 29.97 footage and edit it in a NATIVE 29.97 timeline which again, is possible in EVERY OTHER EDIT PROGRAM... Vegas, iMovie, FCP, Canopus, Windows Movie Maker, Ulead, etc. etc. etc.

As far as FCP, I dont see your point? Choose your project settings and pulldown is removed accordingly... unless you are mixing formats it doesnt matter.

ash =o)

Ash Greyson · April 26th, 2006, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

> It is indisputable fact, that PP 1.5 is the ONLY editor on the planet that cannot do 29.97 footage that has in-camera 3:2 pulldown in a 29.97 timeline.

Bollocks!

OK, name another program that wont handle the footage? ANY current program???? There aint one!

ash =o)

Steve House · April 26th, 2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

OK, name another program that wont handle the footage? ANY current program???? There aint one!

ash =o)

Ash, your operative word there is "current" - Your complaint is that Premiere Pro 1.5 won't handle 24p correctly. That may be true - I can't weigh in with a knowlegeable opinion one way of the other on that and I'll take your word for it - but PP 1.5 is NOT a current program. That was then, this is now. Instead of being angry at Adobe for screwing it up in the old version, be happy they fixed it in the new version and move on. I truly don't understand why you're so vocally angry over it. Okay, so it was a bug. It got fixed. ALL software has bugs - some are fixed with a free patch release. Some don't get fixed until a new version is released and no free patch for the old one ever comes out. Sometimes the cause of the bug is so fundamental there's no way TO create a patch and the fix requires so much new code that it's a new product. In the case of PP1.5, the misbehaving program was retired and replaced with one that works properly and now all is right with the world. The cost of the upgrade is pretty insignifigant and you do get some new features to justify the cost. As the song goes, don't worry, be happy.

Ash Greyson · April 26th, 2006, 02:49 PM

By current, I meant one that people are actually using. I venture to guess there are more people who currently own PP 1.5 than 2.0 My guess is that they could NOT fix the bug, hence, swept it under the carpet. I am just shocked that people put up with it. Most my freelance stuff is shot with 2:3 pulldown and I now understand why SOOOOOO many people switched to Vegas. I do have to say that PP 2.0 and the integration with the other apps like After Effects, is quite nice.

ash =o)

Graham Hickling · April 26th, 2006, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

OK, name another program that wont handle the footage? ANY current program???? There aint one!
ash =o)

http://www.puremotion.com/editstudio/index.htm

Plus, of course, earlier versions of ALL the programs that are being discussed. NONE would have originally supported this kind of footage .... until a version was released that did.

PPro didn't use to support that footage .... now it does. Same as all the others.

>>I venture to guess there are more people who currently own PP 1.5 than 2.0

I'm sure you are right. But only a small proportion of them have any interest whatsoever in 24P.

Steve House · April 26th, 2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

http://www.puremotion.com/editstudio/index.htm

....

>>I venture to guess there are more people who currently own PP 1.5 than 2.0

I'm sure you are right. But only a small proportion of them have any interest whatsoever in 24P.

And those for whom it was mission critical probably upgraded to 2.0 the day it was released.

Ash Greyson · April 26th, 2006, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

http://www.puremotion.com/editstudio/index.htm

Plus, of course, earlier versions of ALL the programs that are being discussed. NONE would have originally supported this kind of footage .... until a version was released that did.

PPro didn't use to support that footage .... now it does. Same as all the others.

>>I venture to guess there are more people who currently own PP 1.5 than 2.0

I'm sure you are right. But only a small proportion of them have any interest whatsoever in 24P.

That is 100% incorrrect, I dont think you guys understand. Please read everything I have been saying, I DONT GIVE A FRIGGIN FLIP about editing in 24P... Premiere Pro 1.0 did 2:3 29.97 fine, Premiere 5, 6 and 6.5 do it fine, ANY editor that will handle DV will handle NATIVE 2:3 footage in a 29.97 timeline, every one I have tried, imovie, Windows Movie Maker, Canopus, EVERY recent version of Premiere BUT 1.5. You see, an editor not capable of 24p will merely see it as what it is... 29.97 NORMAL 60i DV. Premiere Pro 1.5, AGAIN, is the ONLY editor which improperly interprets the footage as 24p 2:3:3:2. What arent you guys understanding here????????

ash =o)

Chris Barcellos · April 26th, 2006, 04:43 PM

Ash:

Got what your saying now. And I understand why you may have a problem with Adobe. Problem is most of us using Premiere Pro, both version, don't know 24p from a hole in the ground.

Ash Greyson · April 27th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Sometimes the internet can make communication seem like it is between me and my wife! My only point in ALL of this was that there was a BUG in PP 1.5, it seems that they left it unsolved for so long that people either a) changed their shooting mode or b) left for another editor

When they gave PP an upgrade in 1.5 to handle 24P they goofed up in the handling of people who shot in camera pulldown. OOPS! The entire point is to make post EASY and universal!

ash =o)

Graham Hickling · April 27th, 2006, 07:27 AM

> That is 100% incorrrect

Whatever.

And yes, I DO understand you don't want to edit in 24P. You have indeed made that point ... repeatedly.

Sheila Ward · April 27th, 2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

Sometimes the internet can make communication seem like it is between me and my wife!

LOL!!! That is toooo funny.

Ash Greyson · April 28th, 2006, 01:00 AM

Thanks Sheila... we can end this on a laugh...

Graham, I am not trying to insult you, sorry if it came out that way but any editor NOT capable of 24P will see 2:3 footage as normal DV and edit it normally... the entire purpose of shooting with 24P with 2:3 pull-up if you will, The editor you linked to will handle 24p 2:3 in a 29.97 timeline natively and without a problem. You see, if you can edit DV, you can edit 2:3 DV as it is imbedded in the NORMAL DV stream, this is true of EVERY editor but PP 1.5...

ash =o)

April 26th, 2006, 04:43 PM	#56
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Ash: Got what your saying now. And I understand why you may have a problem with Adobe. Problem is most of us using Premiere Pro, both version, don't know 24p from a hole in the ground. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 26th, 2006, 01:58 AM	#49
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Wow... focus in here fellas... forget 24P... The WHOLE IDEA of 2:3 in camera 24p is that it can be edited natively in a 29.97 timeline... otherwise you would shoot in 2:3:3:2... you with me? I didnt WANT to edit in 24P! I didnt WANT to remove pulldown frames! OK... so... I had footage shot at 29.97 with in-camera 2:3 pulldown that I wanted to capture and edit in a 29.97 timeline. 24P ONLY became a factor because Premiere IMPROPERLY and automatically detected the footage as 2:3:3:2 pulldown, extracted the extra frames and improperly rebuilt the "C" frame, see here http://members.aol.com/ashvid/Cframe.jpg this is a known BUG... still with me? Premiere 1.5 is THE ONLY DV EDIT PROGRAM that does this. All I wanted to do is capture NATIVE 29.97 footage and edit it in a NATIVE 29.97 timeline which again, is possible in EVERY OTHER EDIT PROGRAM... Vegas, iMovie, FCP, Canopus, Windows Movie Maker, Ulead, etc. etc. etc. As far as FCP, I dont see your point? Choose your project settings and pulldown is removed accordingly... unless you are mixing formats it doesnt matter. ash =o)

April 26th, 2006, 02:49 PM	#52
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	By current, I meant one that people are actually using. I venture to guess there are more people who currently own PP 1.5 than 2.0 My guess is that they could NOT fix the bug, hence, swept it under the carpet. I am just shocked that people put up with it. Most my freelance stuff is shot with 2:3 pulldown and I now understand why SOOOOOO many people switched to Vegas. I do have to say that PP 2.0 and the integration with the other apps like After Effects, is quite nice. ash =o)

April 27th, 2006, 12:24 AM	#57
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Sometimes the internet can make communication seem like it is between me and my wife! My only point in ALL of this was that there was a BUG in PP 1.5, it seems that they left it unsolved for so long that people either a) changed their shooting mode or b) left for another editor When they gave PP an upgrade in 1.5 to handle 24P they goofed up in the handling of people who shot in camera pulldown. OOPS! The entire point is to make post EASY and universal! ash =o)

April 27th, 2006, 07:27 AM	#58
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	> That is 100% incorrrect Whatever. And yes, I DO understand you don't want to edit in 24P. You have indeed made that point ... repeatedly.

April 28th, 2006, 01:00 AM	#60
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Thanks Sheila... we can end this on a laugh... Graham, I am not trying to insult you, sorry if it came out that way but any editor NOT capable of 24P will see 2:3 footage as normal DV and edit it normally... the entire purpose of shooting with 24P with 2:3 pull-up if you will, The editor you linked to will handle 24p 2:3 in a 29.97 timeline natively and without a problem. You see, if you can edit DV, you can edit 2:3 DV as it is imbedded in the NORMAL DV stream, this is true of EVERY editor but PP 1.5... ash =o)