DVRack HD Support 24p? at DVinfo.net

Heath Vinyard · February 15th, 2006, 06:45 AM

I posted this in the thread and have not heard from anyone. Does anyone know if DVRack with the HDV add-on supports 24p yet? Either officially or unofficially. I am getting ready to purchase this product, but need to know if it supports 24p.
Thanks.

Karl Soule · February 15th, 2006, 01:24 PM

There are two main formats when talking about 24p.

There are standard DV camcorders, like the DVX100a, that shoot 24 frames per second, but then telecine it to 29.97fps to maintain compatibility with the DV codec. DV Rack is fully compatible with this type of 24p, including the variant called 24pa. It records exactly what the camera provides, which is the 29.97 telecine'd footage. To remove the pulldown frames, you'll need to do that in your editor.

There is also a new 24p format used in JVC and Canon's newest HDV cameras. This is a "true" 24-frames-per-second recording, with no telecine necessary when recording to tape. This new format wasn't in the HDV spec when we created the HDV PowerPak, and we haven't qualified it yet.

In talking with most customers, this true 24p HD mode seems to work fine with DV Rack (and this makes perfect sense, keeping with the design of "record what the camera provides.") However, we've had 1-2 isolated cases where customers are reporting unusual behavior when recording in this mode. At this point, we're not sure if it's a problem with a particular laptop, or if it's an incompatibility with the new format. We are getting a camera in house soon, and should be able to qualify the format soon.

Heath Vinyard · February 15th, 2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Soule

There are two main formats when talking about 24p.

There are standard DV camcorders, like the DVX100a, that shoot 24 frames per second, but then telecine it to 29.97fps to maintain compatibility with the DV codec. DV Rack is fully compatible with this type of 24p, including the variant called 24pa. It records exactly what the camera provides, which is the 29.97 telecine'd footage. To remove the pulldown frames, you'll need to do that in your editor.

There is also a new 24p format used in JVC and Canon's newest HDV cameras. This is a "true" 24-frames-per-second recording, with no telecine necessary when recording to tape. This new format wasn't in the HDV spec when we created the HDV PowerPak, and we haven't qualified it yet.

In talking with most customers, this true 24p HD mode seems to work fine with DV Rack (and this makes perfect sense, keeping with the design of "record what the camera provides.") However, we've had 1-2 isolated cases where customers are reporting unusual behavior when recording in this mode. At this point, we're not sure if it's a problem with a particular laptop, or if it's an incompatibility with the new format. We are getting a camera in house soon, and should be able to qualify the format soon.

Great.
Thank you for the response. I have my JVC HD100 camera now and will be trying the trial version hopefully this weekend to make sure all is well before I buy.
Thank you.

Brian Valente · May 24th, 2006, 11:37 PM

Any update on this?

thanks

Karl Soule · May 26th, 2006, 11:54 AM

The 24P mode should work fine with DV Rack. Any early reports we had of strange behavior was caused by the CPU of the customers' systems maxing out.

Hugh DiMauro · April 14th, 2007, 02:26 PM

I captured Panasonic DVX 100b 24pa footage onto a separate hard drive through DV Rack but when I scrub the clip, frame by frame through the playback module, it shows my clip as having 29.97 frames instead of 23.97. Is that normal or did I miss something?

Hugh DiMauro · April 14th, 2007, 04:47 PM

I may have had a flash of inspiration: I think I remember reading somewhere that the DVX captures 24p but wraps it in an 29.97 fps interlaced coat so it can be played back on tape or, maybe in this case, through DV Rack. It only shows up as 24p when the proper NLE removes that coat and plays it on a timeline for 24p editing. Can somebody confirm this?

Hugh DiMauro · April 18th, 2007, 11:41 AM

For anyone who wants to know, I have my answer by experimentation. Just look at my last post.

Bill Ravens · April 18th, 2007, 11:45 AM

by definition, and by specification, ALL DV footage is 29.97 fps. Every inch of it. If it's DV, then it's 29.97. The cadence of 24 fps can be incorporated in DV by applying pulldown algorithms that artificially bump 24 fps capture up to 29.97 to comply with DV requirements.

Hugh DiMauro · April 18th, 2007, 03:41 PM

Thank you, Bill.

Dan Wilder · April 19th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Hugh,
You didn't mention the version of DV Rack that you are using but DV Rack HD 2.0 has the ability to remove the pulldown as it records to disk. So even though the 24pa footage is coming over the firewire as 29.97 fps, DV Rack 2.0 creates a 24 fps file.
-Dan

Dennis Tzeng · July 27th, 2007, 12:04 AM

Onlocation records the JVC HDV 720P 24 mode fine, but when imported into Premiere Pro CS3, it inteprets it as 29.97 and when you try to change it, it fixes the video, but makes the audio all slow.

I hope Adobe fixes this.

February 15th, 2006, 06:45 AM	#1
Heath Vinyard Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Orange County Posts: 296	DVRack HD Support 24p? I posted this in the thread and have not heard from anyone. Does anyone know if DVRack with the HDV add-on supports 24p yet? Either officially or unofficially. I am getting ready to purchase this product, but need to know if it supports 24p. Thanks. __________________ Heath Vinyard www.ghostlandmedia.com

February 15th, 2006, 01:24 PM	#2
Karl Soule Serious Magic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 106	Well, There are two main formats when talking about 24p. There are standard DV camcorders, like the DVX100a, that shoot 24 frames per second, but then telecine it to 29.97fps to maintain compatibility with the DV codec. DV Rack is fully compatible with this type of 24p, including the variant called 24pa. It records exactly what the camera provides, which is the 29.97 telecine'd footage. To remove the pulldown frames, you'll need to do that in your editor. There is also a new 24p format used in JVC and Canon's newest HDV cameras. This is a "true" 24-frames-per-second recording, with no telecine necessary when recording to tape. This new format wasn't in the HDV spec when we created the HDV PowerPak, and we haven't qualified it yet. In talking with most customers, this true 24p HD mode seems to work fine with DV Rack (and this makes perfect sense, keeping with the design of "record what the camera provides.") However, we've had 1-2 isolated cases where customers are reporting unusual behavior when recording in this mode. At this point, we're not sure if it's a problem with a particular laptop, or if it's an incompatibility with the new format. We are getting a camera in house soon, and should be able to qualify the format soon. __________________ Karl Soule' Product Marketing Manager, Serious Magic Professional Products Group. ksoule@seriousmagic.com

May 24th, 2006, 11:37 PM	#4
Brian Valente Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 293	Any update on this? thanks __________________ ========================== Brian Valente Redrock Microsystems

May 26th, 2006, 11:54 AM	#5
Karl Soule Serious Magic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Folsom, CA Posts: 106	The 24P mode should work fine with DV Rack. Any early reports we had of strange behavior was caused by the CPU of the customers' systems maxing out. __________________ Karl Soule' Product Marketing Manager, Serious Magic Professional Products Group. ksoule@seriousmagic.com

April 14th, 2007, 02:26 PM	#6
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	Does DV Rack Recognize 24p? I captured Panasonic DVX 100b 24pa footage onto a separate hard drive through DV Rack but when I scrub the clip, frame by frame through the playback module, it shows my clip as having 29.97 frames instead of 23.97. Is that normal or did I miss something? __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

April 14th, 2007, 04:47 PM	#7
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	I may have had a flash of inspiration: I think I remember reading somewhere that the DVX captures 24p but wraps it in an 29.97 fps interlaced coat so it can be played back on tape or, maybe in this case, through DV Rack. It only shows up as 24p when the proper NLE removes that coat and plays it on a timeline for 24p editing. Can somebody confirm this? __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

April 18th, 2007, 11:41 AM	#8
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	For anyone who wants to know, I have my answer by experimentation. Just look at my last post. __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

April 18th, 2007, 11:45 AM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	by definition, and by specification, ALL DV footage is 29.97 fps. Every inch of it. If it's DV, then it's 29.97. The cadence of 24 fps can be incorporated in DV by applying pulldown algorithms that artificially bump 24 fps capture up to 29.97 to comply with DV requirements.

April 18th, 2007, 03:41 PM	#10
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,207	Thank you, Bill. __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

April 19th, 2007, 09:36 AM	#11
Dan Wilder Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 29	Hugh, You didn't mention the version of DV Rack that you are using but DV Rack HD 2.0 has the ability to remove the pulldown as it records to disk. So even though the 24pa footage is coming over the firewire as 29.97 fps, DV Rack 2.0 creates a 24 fps file. -Dan

July 27th, 2007, 12:04 AM	#12
Dennis Tzeng New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 16	Onlocation records the JVC HDV 720P 24 mode fine, but when imported into Premiere Pro CS3, it inteprets it as 29.97 and when you try to change it, it fixes the video, but makes the audio all slow. I hope Adobe fixes this.