MPEG4, ipod video, and Premiere Pro 1.5

[A. Stone]

There's seems to be a bit of a revolution brewing with on-the-go-video and handheld devices like the iPod. A web designed friend of mine has been asked to accommodate video pod-casts, but she (and I) don't know where to start.

First off, the only codec that I can find that is iPod compatible is MPEG4. The only available MPEG codecs (that I know of) in Premiere Pro 1.5 are MPEG1 and MPEG2. questions:

1.) Is there a third party plug-in for Premiere Pro 1.5 that adds this (MPEG4) media encoding functionality?

2.) Does PP1.5 already have a codec that will work for an iPod that I don't know about?

Any advice or help would be most welcome!

Thanks,

Andrew Stone
Last Minute Productions

[Boyd Ostroff]

This thread might be of interest: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=54794

[Dan Euritt]

"H.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats
MPEG-4 video: up to 2.5 mbps, 480 x 480, 30 frames per sec., Simple Profile with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4 and .mov file formats" -http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

and fwiw: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/art...comments/5929/

you should be able to use nero h.264 to encode ipod video.

[Christopher Lefchik]

If you install QuickTime 7 (just the free player will do, no need to get the Pro version), you will then be able to encode .mov files with the H.264 MPEG4 codec. I've done it.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

If you install QuickTime 7 (just the free player will do, no need to get the Pro version), you will then be able to encode .mov files with the H.264 MPEG4 codec. I've done it.

Christopher,

You do seem to be the Premiere guru. Do you use a PC or Mac? I put QT7 on my PC and it messed up my After Effects 5.5. If you use a PC, is it just the older versions of AE it messes up? Maybe I just need to upgrade!

Thanks---Mike

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

You do seem to be the Premiere guru. Do you use a PC or Mac? I put QT7 on my PC and it messed up my After Effects 5.5. If you use a PC, is it just the older versions of AE it messes up? Maybe I just need to upgrade!

Thank you for the compliment. It may seem I'm a guru, but believe me, there is still much I don't know about Premiere Pro. (I'm on a PC.)

RE QuickTime 7 and After Effects, I did a quick search of the Adobe After Effects User to User forums. From what I read, most problems between QuickTime 7 and After Effects were solved by updating to the latest graphics (video) card drivers. From the little I read there were no mentions of any specific versions of After Effects being prone to more problems with QuickTime 7.

Was the QuickTime 7 version you installed a beta version? I think even after Apple released the final version they came out with another update.

So far I haven't installed QuickTime 7 on my main editing installation. I'm in the middle of a major project, and I'm taking no chances. However, I did install QuickTime 7 on another Windows installation that had Premiere Pro; that's how I know Premiere Pro can output H.264 .mov files.

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

Thank you for the compliment. It may seem I'm a guru, but believe me, there is still much I don't know about Premiere Pro. (I'm on a PC.)

RE QuickTime 7 and After Effects, I did a quick search of the Adobe After Effects User to User forums. From what I read, most problems between QuickTime 7 and After Effects were solved by updating to the latest graphics (video) card drivers. From the little I read there were no mentions of any specific versions of After Effects being prone to more problems with QuickTime 7.

Was the QuickTime 7 version you installed a beta version? I think even after Apple released the final version they came out with another update.

So far I haven't installed QuickTime 7 on my main editing installation. I'm in the middle of a major project, and I'm taking no chances. However, I did install QuickTime 7 on another Windows installation that had Premiere Pro; that's how I know Premiere Pro can output H.264 .mov files.

The problem AE 5.5 had with Qt 7, was the when you launch AE it put up a warning saying that no compatable QT version could be found so that function was disabled. No more QT files within AE. Probably not a real serious issue, but I took QT7 off anyway.

Please check my recent post in Premiere Land on disappearing video. You may be able to help there. I am dreading a serious issue there. Man I do not want to do anymore re-installs.

Thanks----Mike

[A. Stone]

Thanks everyone for the feedback...I now need to drop the required $$$ on an iPod to test this (yes, I'm the only human on the planet without one).

Cheers!

[Kris Holodak]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

If you install QuickTime 7 (just the free player will do, no need to get the Pro version), you will then be able to encode .mov files with the H.264 MPEG4 codec. I've done it.

Christopher,

Having done that were you then able to play it on an ipod? I had been working in Final Cut Express and followed the settings that were discussed in that link that Boyd provided, plus other reading I'd done on Apple's site, etc, and found that the result played well in iTunes, but when the video iPods came in they wouldn't play there. The only way I found to make it work was to have QTPro and use the export to ipod feature. (That, however, worked very well and I now have an ipod full of videos sitting on my VP's desk waiting for him to impress the president with.) I was at Digital Media DC recently and someone in the compression seminar described exactly the same problem that I'd had. I'm wondering if he and I just happened to be making the same mistake or if others have had similar trouble.

Smile,
Kris

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik

If you install QuickTime 7 (just the free player will do, no need to get the Pro version), you will then be able to encode .mov files with the H.264 MPEG4 codec. I've done it.

i have the latest version of the free qt7 player installed on two different computers, and neither of 'em have any kind of encoding or exporting capability from within qt7... every selection of that nature is labeled as "qt7 pro", and it is grayed out, aka, unselectable.

so it appears to me that whatever you did was not done with the free qt7 player... afaik, it's the most worthless p.o.s. version of qt yet; full-on nagware that also insists on permanently installing itself in the startup/toolbar every time that it's used.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stone

I now need to drop the required $$$ on an iPod to test this (yes, I'm the only human on the planet without one).

i don't have an ipod either, lol, we must be dinosaurs from a lost generation.

i have seen internet threads that claim that the ipod will not do simple things like play back two-pass, qt7pro-encoded h.264, even when it's done per the official specs i listed earlier in this thread... the claim was that it has to be single-pass encoding only to work with an ipod, which is of course absurd... vbr issues i can see, but not two-pass encoding problems.

so we need someone out here with a video ipod to test out some of these issues for us... we put the test clips on a website, they download 'em and play 'em back for us.

[Kris Holodak]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

so we need someone out here with a video ipod to test out some of these issues for us... we put the test clips on a website, they download 'em and play 'em back for us.

Work bought me two specifically for testing purposes. Well, so I can keep testing with one while the VP has the other for dog and pony shows. While I have gotten it working enough with QTPro's "export for ipod" I don't like the fact that it doesn't give you any actual control of what it does. So I was planning on more testing anyway. Send me a link along with details of how you created it and I'll load it up and tell you the results. After doing that a few times we ought to be able to come up specs to share with the group.

Kris

PS: I've never owned an ipod personally. Couldn't see spending the money on it when there are always software upgrades, or better mics, or other more useful toys to buy.

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

The problem AE 5.5 had with Qt 7, was the when you launch AE it put up a warning saying that no compatable QT version could be found so that function was disabled. No more QT files within AE. Probably not a real serious issue, but I took QT7 off anyway.

That's odd. Maybe it does have something to do with After Effects 5.5 being an older version of AE, as you suggested earlier.

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Kris Holodak

Christopher,

Having done that were you then able to play it on an ipod? I had been working in Final Cut Express and followed the settings that were discussed in that link that Boyd provided, plus other reading I'd done on Apple's site, etc, and found that the result played well in iTunes, but when the video iPods came in they wouldn't play there.

I don't have a video iPod, and I don't plan on getting one, so I'm afraid I have no idea. I do say, though, it would be rather irritating if one has to purchase QuickTime Pro to be able to encode H.264 that works on video iPod units.

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i have the latest version of the free qt7 player installed on two different computers, and neither of 'em have any kind of encoding or exporting capability from within qt7... every selection of that nature is labeled as "qt7 pro", and it is grayed out, aka, unselectable.

so it appears to me that whatever you did was not done with the free qt7 player... afaik, it's the most worthless p.o.s. version of qt yet; full-on nagware that also insists on permanently installing itself in the startup/toolbar every time that it's used.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that installing the free QuickTime 7 player enabled the QuickTime H.264 codec inside of Premiere Pro. Once the QuickTime 7 player was installed I could then export streaming .mov files encoded with the H.264 codec from the Adobe Media Encoder inside of Premiere Pro.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i don't have an ipod either, lol, we must be dinosaurs from a lost generation.

Don't worry, I don't have one, either, and I won't be getting one. For that matter I don't have any type of hard drive or flash memory based audio/video/whatever player. I simply don't feel a need for one.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i have seen internet threads that claim that the ipod will not do simple things like play back two-pass, qt7pro-encoded h.264, even when it's done per the official specs i listed earlier in this thread... the claim was that it has to be single-pass encoding only to work with an ipod, which is of course absurd... vbr issues i can see, but not two-pass encoding problems.

I totally agree that is absolutely absurd, if true.

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

so we need someone out here with a video ipod to test out some of these issues for us... we put the test clips on a website, they download 'em and play 'em back for us.

Excellent idea. I agree that needs to be done.

[Dan Euritt]

Originally Posted by Kris Holodak

While I have gotten it working enough with QTPro's "export for ipod" I don't like the fact that it doesn't give you any actual control of what it does. So I was planning on more testing anyway. Send me a link along with details of how you created it and I'll load it up and tell you the results.

http://www.codectest.com/productrevi...teIPODtest.zip

there are two files in there, one with qt simple profile checked, the other qt simple profile unchecked(bidirectional VOP selected)... both with two-pass encoding, max quality.

the apple spec is: "H.264 video: up to 768 Kbps, 320 x 240, 30 frames per sec., Baseline Profile up to Level 1.3 with AAC-LC up to 160 Kbps, 48 Khz, stereo audio."

i ended up with very slightly under 768kbps for the video bitrate; everything else per the above... nero calls their aac something else, but i believe that it's fully compatible with all mpeg4(?)... i used the low complexity audio model, i think that it's vbr audio, but the video defaults to cbr? no choice in nero for vbr encoding?

those max settings are probably overkill for the tiny ipod screen.

that premiere h.264/qt thing is interesting, because i think that mainconcept has an h.264 encoder... i wonder if you can output h.264 off of the premiere pro timeline, without using the qt front end?