Premiere, Matrox, Progressive...NOT!

[Doug Boze]

I have Premiere Pro 1.51, the Matrox RT.X100 and use it to edit video recorded on an XL-2 at 30p. I've seen some weirdness when using the Matrox DVEs, such as for a page-turn transition. I would see severe interlacing in the preview, but never in the final output. I've never had any trouble with interlaced artifacts in titles, either. All the real-time stuff works, but frankly, apart from seeing the result of an effect right away, there is no advantage to this when outputting to DVD.

I use the Matrox preset for 16:9 DV video. I use the RT.X100 to encode the video to MPEG-2. Since it doesn't do audio, I export the timeline audio as a .WAV from PPro, then run it though TMPGEnc AC-3.

Matrox has an annoying habit of using many words to say very little specifically about their products. That's why you end up buying their stuff only to discover the "gotcha" they didn't mention.

My only nagging problem with the RT.X100 is that it swaps left and right audio channels when capturing. I had to check the box "swap left and right channels" in the capture settings to correct this.

[Peter Jefferson]

Originally Posted by Tim Buege

Hi all,

I apologize in advance for the long post, but this is the culmination of a couple years of frustration. If this can help anyone (or if anyone can help me!), it will be worth the read.

I've been doing NLE with Premiere and a Matrox RT.X100 for about 3 1/2 years now. I capture all my video using a Canon GL-2. I shoot nearly everything in FRAME mode on the GL-2. I like the look it gives, and I prefer a final product in progressive mode.

It's been a struggle to get decent MPEG encodings. I use MainConcept's MPEG Encoder, a fantastic product for the price, IMO. I can set things to look good for the video, but then my titles will look aliased, jagged, combed. If I render for the titles, then the video looks aliased, jagged, combed. At first I faulted the MPEG Encoder. I had several good conversations with the developer, and we determined it must be something in the codecs I have installed on my sytem. I basically gave up trying to get a good render.

Over the last few days I've been trying to finish up a project. It's a simple project of a family gathering. Simple cuts, simple titles. In the credits, I have some particle effects that "break up" the titles. I've been unable to find the right MPEG encoding parameters to make both the titles AND the video look good. I decided to search the Matrox Video user forums. To my surprise and shock I read the following words (the full thread is here):



What!?!? No support for progressive scan video? Could this be the root of the problems I've been having all these months? So I performed a couple tests. Starting a new premiere project, I used a Matrox preset (using the RT.X100 engine) and set the properties to progressive scan. I created a simple title and used Premiere's move and scale effects to add motion to the clip. I exported a frame in the middle of the clip, opened it in a graphics editor, and sure enough, it was seriously interlaced / combed / aliased. Yuck. I repeated the entire test, only this time I chose not to use the RT.X100, essentially disabling it. I setup the same title with motion, and exported the frame. It was clean and crisp, with no combing or interlacing.

So it appears that the statement above by Matrox support is true. When using the RT.X100, all editing of video is done in an interlaced mode. This explains many countless hours of frustration, not knowing why my MPEG looked so bad, not being able to control any settings that could affect it. Everytime I applied some effect to my progressive scan video clips, the RT.X100 was interlacing those effects. You can imagine what this would look like. And I apply color correction to all my clips... <sigh>

Now I'm not sure what to do. I still intend to shoot FRAME mode on my GL2. I wonder if I should dump the RT.X100 and get something like Adobe After Effects. This is really too bad. The RT.X100 has some great features, real time being one of them. It's unfortunate I had to spend $1200 and over three years to find that I couldn't do what I wanted. I'm still searching the RT.X100 doco for a statement like the one made by the Matrox support person. I don't think it's there.

I'm open to suggestions, comments, thoughts.

I havent had a chance to read through each post, however I did a short write up on the new RTx2 and the fact that even to this day, matrox STILL dont offer full progressive scan support... considering Progressive is one of the weaker elements within Premiere, one would LIKE to hope that matrox could have taken this weakness and turned it into a strength, but they didnt..

if u think your done by now, imagine all those JVCHD101 owners who wont be able to use an RTx2 to their advantage.. considering most users of the RTx100 are event videographers, and one of the highest selling HDV camcorder here in Aus is the JVC (all those ENG'ers are jumping to it) you would think that it would at least support 720p, but it doesnt..

but like i said, there was a write up on the release of the RTx2 based on Spec in the premier forum

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Doug Boze

All the real-time stuff works, but frankly, apart from seeing the result of an effect right away, there is no advantage to this when outputting to DVD.

What do you mean? The Matrox RT.X100 can do real-time MPEG-2 encoding. I know some people who had (I believe) similar specs to my computer (3GHz P4 HT, 2 GB RAM) claim they could get faster than real-time MPEG-2 encoding without a card like the RT.X100, but that's never happened on my rig.

Originally Posted by Doug Boze

I use the RT.X100 to encode the video to MPEG-2. Since it doesn't do audio, I export the timeline audio as a .WAV from PPro, then run it though TMPGEnc AC-3.

I'm not booted into my editing profile right now, but the RT.X100 can export a .wav along with the MPEG-2 stream. I also believe it may be able to export an .mp2 audio stream, if desired. As for not including AC3 encoding, that’s quite understandable given the licensing fees Matrox would have had to pay. Even Adobe didn’t include an AC3 encoder with Premiere Pro; you’ve got to pay extra for that module.

[Peter Jefferson]

I'm not booted into my editing profile right now, but the RT.X100 can export a .wav along with the MPEG-2 stream.
((Sure can, and i would ONLY recommend this... forget mpgaudio streams.. unless ur happy to put up with mp3 quality mush... )

I also believe it may be able to export an .mp2 audio stream, if desired.
((Yup, simoultaneously as the MPG2 video stream in fact))

As for not including AC3 encoding, that’s quite understandable given the licensing fees Matrox would have had to pay.
((Its not jsut that.. u see the matrox isnt a Hardware AC3 encoder.. if it was, it would definately be on my "top 10 bits of kit" but as it stands.. no.. and more than likely, considering there are cheaper alternatives out there theres no point in even going there.. ))

Even Adobe didn’t include an AC3 encoder with Premiere Pro; you’ve got to pay extra for that module.

((yah.. 400 odd dollars AUD from memory... thins is though, even without the plugin u still cant edit for 5.1 output. There is more than 1 surround sound format available, and by not even including surround mixing options, adobe (and to an extent matrox) have really shot themselves in the foot.

As an example, the ac3 encoder DOES NOT come with Vegas.. it comes with DVD architect, which then unlocks the render engine in vegas.
However, even without the ac3 encoder in Vegas, one can still create 5.1 mixes for DTS surround (from 6xwave) output, wma surround audio and wmv9 surround output

[Christopher Lefchik]

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

((yah.. 400 odd dollars AUD from memory... thins is though, even without the plugin u still cant edit for 5.1 output. There is more than 1 surround sound format available, and by not even including surround mixing options, adobe (and to an extent matrox) have really shot themselves in the foot.

I'm afraid that's incorrect. You can create 5.1 mixes and then export them as six channel .wav files from Premiere Pro without purchasing the Dolby Digital 5.1 export plugin. I just tried it myself.