Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage at DVinfo.net

Brian Cassar · December 10th, 2012, 03:05 PM

I normal film with an EX1 and also an EX3 and edit via Premiere CS6. Lately I have started using a 5D MK2. However I found out that I cannot get any smooth slow mo from Premiere with the 5D footage - there is a severe stuttering effect even after rendering. With the EX cameras footage I used to obtain decent looking slow mo directly from Premiere.

I am filming in 1920x1080 25fps with the 5D and using the DSLR pre-set timeline within Premiere.

Any ideas why this is happening and what can be done? I do not wish to enter into any complicated workflows - I just want a quick way to produce slow mo.

By the way I am using a mac pro quad core with 16GB RAM and striped SSD drives.

Thanks

Noa Put · December 10th, 2012, 03:23 PM

slowing down 25p footage usually results in stuttery motion, you say the slomo from your ex camera is better, was that from 25p footage as well or was it 50I?

Brian Cassar · December 10th, 2012, 10:25 PM

The EX footage is always shot at 50i. Is the footage of the 5D 2 interlaced or progressive (the 1920x1080 25fps)?

Noa Put · December 11th, 2012, 01:36 AM

It's always progressive, since you only got 25 whole frames per seconds to work with that's not a good starting point for slowing down your footage, not sure about the 5D but I think there should be a 720P 50P option as well which is much better for slow motion, only the Canon's are known for producing a lot of moire at that setting. You do have software solutions, like twixtor, to help you slowing down 25P but beside that you should have a camera that can do at least either 50I or 50P for better results.

John Wiley · December 11th, 2012, 06:46 AM

The Canon 5dmkII is the only one of the Canon HDSLR's that does not shoot 50por 60p.

It is limited to either 24, 25 or 30fps which means you do not have the ability to get smooth slow motion.
As Noa said though, it is possible to use software such as Twixtor to get nice slow-motion effects, depending on the content and the complexity of the scene.

Although it is worth mentioning that these days, a used 550D or 600D (which can both shoot up to 60p) is probably about the same price as buying Twixtor.

Brian Cassar · December 12th, 2012, 02:53 AM

Many thanks for your replies. I will try out Twixtor as I only need a few shots per project as slow motion which have to be shot by the 5D Mk2

Bart Walczak · December 13th, 2012, 03:15 AM

You can always move the clips to after effects, and use its Pixel Motion technology. It's not as good as Twixtor, but if you already have AE, it won't set you back for a few hundred dollars...

Brian Cassar · December 14th, 2012, 11:46 AM

Dear Bart, I tried to act on your advice. However I must be doing something wrong as I did not see any difference. I exported clip to AE, chose Pixel Motion and stretched time to 300% in order to get around 30% slow mo. No difference was seen. Am I missing something? I am not entirely confident using AE and so I think I am doing something wrong.

Justin Molush · December 14th, 2012, 05:07 PM

If there is any medium to large degree of motion present in 24/25p footage, twixtor will struggle and fight and it will not look right due to the large amount of warping. This isnt a deficiency in twixtor at all, just the nature of frame interpolation.

The strategy I usually use to get the most with the least amount of notice involves round tripping it a few times. I shoot on DSLR so the lack of 1080/60p is why I do this and is my workaround to get 1080/"60" in DSLRs.

For footage you know you want to slow down, shoot as high of a frame rate as you can. If you NEED 1080p, shoot 29.97, not 23.976 even if that is your target. For "proper" twixtor results, 60p is borderline necessary (obv not possible on 5DII).

I will usually import the 1080/30p file into after effects and apply Twixtor to simulate 80% of original or 20% slowdown. If it reacts very well, I could bring it down to 60% of original. This is usually enough to create enough frames to get some spacing when we re-conform the twixtor'd 29.97 file into whatever format we please. Export.

Bringing the file back into premiere, I set the speed to match whatever the destination source is. IE 29.97 @ 80% conforms perfectly into 23.976 in premiere with no frame issues. Same applies for a 29.97 -> 25 simply conform it to 83.3% and you shouldn't have any issues. Premiere handles this kind of stuff very well. I would be surprised if it forces frame blending into 25p (I never work in it).

December 10th, 2012, 03:05 PM	#1
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage I normal film with an EX1 and also an EX3 and edit via Premiere CS6. Lately I have started using a 5D MK2. However I found out that I cannot get any smooth slow mo from Premiere with the 5D footage - there is a severe stuttering effect even after rendering. With the EX cameras footage I used to obtain decent looking slow mo directly from Premiere. I am filming in 1920x1080 25fps with the 5D and using the DSLR pre-set timeline within Premiere. Any ideas why this is happening and what can be done? I do not wish to enter into any complicated workflows - I just want a quick way to produce slow mo. By the way I am using a mac pro quad core with 16GB RAM and striped SSD drives. Thanks

December 10th, 2012, 03:23 PM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage slowing down 25p footage usually results in stuttery motion, you say the slomo from your ex camera is better, was that from 25p footage as well or was it 50I?

December 10th, 2012, 10:25 PM	#3
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage The EX footage is always shot at 50i. Is the footage of the 5D 2 interlaced or progressive (the 1920x1080 25fps)?

December 11th, 2012, 01:36 AM	#4
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage It's always progressive, since you only got 25 whole frames per seconds to work with that's not a good starting point for slowing down your footage, not sure about the 5D but I think there should be a 720P 50P option as well which is much better for slow motion, only the Canon's are known for producing a lot of moire at that setting. You do have software solutions, like twixtor, to help you slowing down 25P but beside that you should have a camera that can do at least either 50I or 50P for better results.

December 11th, 2012, 06:46 AM	#5
John Wiley Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Byron Bay, Australia Posts: 1,155	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage The Canon 5dmkII is the only one of the Canon HDSLR's that does not shoot 50por 60p. It is limited to either 24, 25 or 30fps which means you do not have the ability to get smooth slow motion. As Noa said though, it is possible to use software such as Twixtor to get nice slow-motion effects, depending on the content and the complexity of the scene. Although it is worth mentioning that these days, a used 550D or 600D (which can both shoot up to 60p) is probably about the same price as buying Twixtor.

December 12th, 2012, 02:53 AM	#6
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage Many thanks for your replies. I will try out Twixtor as I only need a few shots per project as slow motion which have to be shot by the 5D Mk2

December 13th, 2012, 03:15 AM	#7
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage You can always move the clips to after effects, and use its Pixel Motion technology. It's not as good as Twixtor, but if you already have AE, it won't set you back for a few hundred dollars... __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

December 14th, 2012, 11:46 AM	#8
Brian Cassar Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Malta Posts: 306	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage Dear Bart, I tried to act on your advice. However I must be doing something wrong as I did not see any difference. I exported clip to AE, chose Pixel Motion and stretched time to 300% in order to get around 30% slow mo. No difference was seen. Am I missing something? I am not entirely confident using AE and so I think I am doing something wrong.

December 14th, 2012, 05:07 PM	#9
Justin Molush Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 388	Re: Stuttering slow mo with 5D MK2 footage If there is any medium to large degree of motion present in 24/25p footage, twixtor will struggle and fight and it will not look right due to the large amount of warping. This isnt a deficiency in twixtor at all, just the nature of frame interpolation. The strategy I usually use to get the most with the least amount of notice involves round tripping it a few times. I shoot on DSLR so the lack of 1080/60p is why I do this and is my workaround to get 1080/"60" in DSLRs. For footage you know you want to slow down, shoot as high of a frame rate as you can. If you NEED 1080p, shoot 29.97, not 23.976 even if that is your target. For "proper" twixtor results, 60p is borderline necessary (obv not possible on 5DII). I will usually import the 1080/30p file into after effects and apply Twixtor to simulate 80% of original or 20% slowdown. If it reacts very well, I could bring it down to 60% of original. This is usually enough to create enough frames to get some spacing when we re-conform the twixtor'd 29.97 file into whatever format we please. Export. Bringing the file back into premiere, I set the speed to match whatever the destination source is. IE 29.97 @ 80% conforms perfectly into 23.976 in premiere with no frame issues. Same applies for a 29.97 -> 25 simply conform it to 83.3% and you shouldn't have any issues. Premiere handles this kind of stuff very well. I would be surprised if it forces frame blending into 25p (I never work in it). __________________ Automotive Multimedia