CS6 Premiere Pro choking on mundane stuff

[Steve Wolla]

True enough, Xdcam is a whole lot less taxing on resources than AVCHD, being MPEG-2 based. But it's not the AVCHD codec that is at fault.

I am now back to using CS5.5 Production Premium, and the same computer that chokes with CS6 goes like blazes on CS5.5. Even CS4 handled AVCHD pretty decently though nothing like CS5.5!

But with CS6, it is very inconsistent. I shot a theatrical production on the 15th with 4 AVCHD cams- 2 Panasonic HMC150's + AC160, and a Canon HFS-10 "backstage cam" for good measure. CS6 is doing a great job on that, NO choking up!!! It's running just like it should! I about passed out.

On the other hand I just shot a real simple church service today, nothing fancy (with the AC160) and CS6 just cannot do it. It's back to having the video freeze up. Why it cuts through the multi cam project like a hot knife through butter and dies on a simple single cam shoot, I just do not get.

[Bart Walczak]

Steve,

Is there any difference in sequence settings that you used in either project?

[Mike Beckett]

Sorry to resurrect this.

Steve, I'm having a similar problem to you with 1080 50i footage from my new Panasonic AC130a. I'll post computer specs later (can't do it from memory).

But.... here's the story.

I've edited AVCHD footage for years now with Premiere Pro with no problem. Initially I used CS5 with 1080 50i Panasonic footage. Then I moved to 1080 50p 28Mbps footage with CS5, then later CS6 - again without any problems at all.

You'd think that 1080 50p would be the hardest to edit, given the amount of data and frame rate, but I never had problems.

Now with the AC130a, I don't have 1080 50p, so I chose 50i. It's approx 21Mbps.

Then the fun begins when it gets into CS6. Performance is pretty much as Steve describes. I presume Premiere is de-interlacing and having problems. Here's the scenarios:

1. Create 1080 50i sequence, add the clips, performance terrible.
2. Right-click the MTS file and create sequence from clip (just to be sure) and it's the same
3. Create a 25p sequence, drag the clip on. Render the footage... bingo, magic, performance is perfect.
4. Convert to Cineform, 50i footage. Result: 14GB file instead of 2GB, performance is magic, though the files are massive
5. Create a 50p footage and drag the clip on. Render it, and performance is perfect.

It's not disk or processor, these aren't getting taxed at all. 8GB of available RAM and only 1.5GB in use by Premiere. 4 separate disk drives (OS + program / source + project files / Premiere render files / render drive for output). This setup has worked with everything else I can throw at it.

I don't particularly want to edit at 25p or 50p, I'm outputting to DVD and should be able to edit interlaced.

It appears to be something specific to putting 1080 50i footage in a 1080 50i sequence. So either:
(a) This specific combination creates a processor load waaaay in excess of all other AVCHD footage, including 1080 50p at 28Mbps that I wasn't expecting
or
(b) There is a bug with that combination of format and timeline setup that exists in CS6 that didn't exist in CS5 on the exact same hardware 2 years ago!

[Ron Evans]

I think that the common factor here is a Panasonic file. How were they transferred to the PC ? Is the audio LPCM ? I have all Sony cameras and just checked in CS6, Vegas 12 and I know my Edius 6 works but don't use the others for video normally. Tried a 60i file from my Sony SR11, 60P file from my CX700 and NX30 and 60i file with LPCM audio from my NX5U. All files transferred with Sony transfer software. They all worked in any of the NLE's with either 60i project, 60P project or 30P project with either square pixels or anamorphic. Don't have any 50i files to try for you.

PC is i7 2600K, 16G RAM, GTX560, separate boot , temp, storage and render hard drives. WIN7 64.

Ron Evans

[Mike Beckett]

Ron,

My system is similar to yours apart from the RAM (I have 8GB) and an ATI graphics card.

I suspect it is a specific combination of hardware and software here for CS6, along with specific files.I'll try to get one online for you to play with.

As a fix - I had a momentary brainwave, and applied a fast color corrector (at default settings) to all the video clips on the timeline and rendered it. The problem seems to have gone away. I presume it's because it's using the rendered files rather than the native .MTS.

I'll report back after a night of editing.

[Panagiotis Raris]

check out WinDirStat to visually see and easily navigate to space hungry files or files not needed/wanted. my old machine, now donated to my folks, had only an 80GB Intel SSD and little 4 laptop disk RAID5 array and 1TB storage disk; it took very little time to fill it up with junk.

[Mike Beckett]

This is the thing.... I know my way round computers (I'd need to after all these years in the business). Plenty of disk space, defragged regularly, no unnecessary files etc. The issue is not down to disk space or similar problems, I can edit bigger, more complex files than 1080 50i AVCHD on the same hardware.

It has to be a problem with Premiere and that combination of files (possibly on some hardware). The main thing is I seem to have a workaround for now, and one which sort of makes sense to me.

I guess I'll never know what goes on inside Premiere when it's processing different file types. The fact is, the processor, memory and disks are not being stressed at all with these files, it really seems like a bug of some sort.

[Jeff Pulera]

Hi All,

Unless I missed it, I don't see where it was ever suggested to apply the 6.0.3 update to Premiere, which would be one of the first things to try and help performance/fix bugs.

Thanks

[Al Bergstein]

Been having similar problems, using 6.0.3, with timelines with AVCHD on them. Called Adobe tech support. They were hard core that stripping out MTS files can cause corruption problems. This is a major PITA and frankly i have a hard time believing it. But...
I think the problem could be a corrupt media cache or even a sequence corruption. When I created a new project, new sequences, after deleting the media cache db the problm has vanished. If i return to the old project/timeline, it returns, cache cleaned or not.

I believe this corruption is caused by panny AVCHD and Pr. This is only a hunch, but i have never experienced this problem with non AVCHD footage timelines (ie canon mxf and canon mov.).

In the meantime, i am not going to strip MTS out of my AVCHD footage, and will minimize it's use. I wonder if canon 100 users are having similar problems with pr? Not sure how i will. Avoid duplicate file names with AVCHD in full folders. Anyone got a solution to that?

[Mike Beckett]

Just to clarify, I'm on 6.0.3, I update Pr as soon as each update is available.

Al, I've tried it with new projects and old projects, it didn't make things any better if it was a brand new project with a single timeline and one 20-second MTS file in it.

You're right, it might be the Panasonic implementation of AVCHD in these files, I've no way to try other files. I haven't yet tried 720 50p either to see if it's any better, I haven't had time.

Can anyone point me at a sample raw Sony 1080i 50 file I could compare with? I only have 1080 50p from my last Sony.

One last thing Al - can you explain what you mean by "stripping out MTS files"? I have several possibilities in my head for that one, and I'm not sure any of them are correct!

[Al Bergstein]

Mike, many of us that I am aware of have had difficulty creating unique file names with AVCHD, because the file structure doesn't lend itself to simple renaming (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Renaming is needed especially if you have to recreate your project in some way, because Adobe and FCP cannot find a unique file based on higher level folder names (C:\FOO\FOOroll1\AVCHD folder structure\File001). To be clear, Sony Vegas does a much better job of helping you relink lost files. Don't know why Pr has such a hard time with them. Many people I know have taken to stripping out the MTS files, which normally play fine and can easily be renamed.

When I talked to Adobe tech support the other day, the person was adamant that this was a *bad thing to do* and he claimed could lead to problems with the product. I don't know if he really knew what he was talking about or not. Now if Premiere is expecting, as part of it's ability to read multiple formats without transcoding, to find a specific type of folder structure to identify the filetype,maybe there is something to this issue. Again, I don't know, and the Adobe Tech Support person could not specify to me why he was saying this, but that he strongly advised against it. And my timelines that are corrupted did have B camera roll stuff done on a Panny TM900 using an AVCHD structure. My other timelines are fine.

I think that I'm going to see if there is a tool that can leave the AVCHD structure whole, and rename the MTS files inside it. That would be a start to determine whether this is an answer to this corruption business. Also to be clear, while clearing the media cache is a good idea I suppose at times like this, it made no difference to my timeline corruption and it's stalling out while doing playback.

By the way, when this happened, I got a red X in the lower right hand corner of the screen, alerting me to errors in the playback log. The tech wasn't really interested in those errors. He cleared the cache.

Hope this was a clear explanation.

[Mike Beckett]

Al, thanks for the explanation, that helps. You basically mean copying the MTS files out of the AVCHD folder structure and putting them somewhere else?

Yes, you can have 14 files all called 0001.MTS. I generally have one sub-folder per camera or shooting session, so I don't have too many problems with names clashing.

To be perfectly honest, I've always just copied the MTS files out of the this\that\the other folder on the SDHC card and put them in my own folder. I've found absolutely no difference ever in doing it this way rather than importing complete cards. Purists will come along and tell me off - but it really doesn't make any difference, and doesn't help at all with my current predicament (I've tried it).

I've tried importing the complete card by copying the whole card to a hard disk then ysing the media browser to add it to my project. Absolutely no difference at all in performance. Yes, I did try this with my current camera and current problems, it didn't make a jot of difference.

I understand that the card will have additional meta data, and you will cope better with files bigger than 4GB, but it's never, ever given me a problem putting the files somewhere else.

Clearing media cache and other files makes no difference to me either.

To backtrack a bit, I'm just happy I have a fix (applying a simple effect to the clips on the timeline and rendering). Oddly, I can scrub the clips just fine in the preview window, scrubbing back and forth as usual, it's only when they go on a timeline that the problems happen.

[Al Bergstein]

Originally Posted by Mike Beckett

Al, thanks for the explanation, that helps. You basically mean copying the MTS files out of the AVCHD folder structure and putting them somewhere else?

Al says: Yes, that's what I mean

Yes, you can have 14 files all called 0001.MTS. I generally have one sub-folder per camera or shooting session, so I don't have too many problems with names clashing.

Al says: It's not a problem until you have to find that 0001.MTS on your hard drive because it's been "lost" by Pr.

To be perfectly honest, I've always just copied the MTS files out of the this\that\the other folder on the SDHC card and put them in my own folder. I've found absolutely no difference ever in doing it this way rather than importing complete cards. Purists will come along and tell me off - but it really doesn't make any difference, and doesn't help at all with my current predicament (I've tried it).

Al says: Adobe Tech Support seems adamant that this can lead to corrupt timelines. I have no idea if that's true or not, but that's what they told me, in no uncertain terms. I asked them the question in more than one way.

I've tried importing the complete card by copying the whole card to a hard disk then ysing the media browser to add it to my project. Absolutely no difference at all in performance. Yes, I did try this with my current camera and current problems, it didn't make a jot of difference.

Al says: Then something else is wrong, obviously (G).

I understand that the card will have additional meta data, and you will cope better with files bigger than 4GB, but it's never, ever given me a problem putting the files somewhere else.

Clearing media cache and other files makes no difference to me either.

To backtrack a bit, I'm just happy I have a fix (applying a simple effect to the clips on the timeline and rendering). Oddly, I can scrub the clips just fine in the preview window, scrubbing back and forth as usual, it's only when they go on a timeline that the problems happen.

Al says: Me too. It doesn't happen with MXF or MOV based timelines. Go figure.

[Ron Evans]

This is a reason I always use the Sony software with my cameras to transfer to the PC. This converts the mts files as clips and creates m2ts files named by the date and time the clip was taken automatically placing in a directory named the date the transfer takes place. If the clips are long it joins the mts files together as a single clip again named at the date and time the clip was taken however long that was such as 20130324130820.m2ts. ie 24th march 2013 at 8 mins past 1pm and 20 frames. Transfer time to the PC is the same as a copy so I see no reason not to use the utility and solve all the confusion. Panasonic must have a similar utility. The m2ts files are then easy to archive as the dates are unique and there is a record of when the files were transferred. I normally shoot multicam events with 4 AVCHD cameras all Sony's but 2 consumer and 2 NXCam versions, so having good clip management is important. I then archive my files before editing. Also these files will of course work in Vegas, Premiere and Edius with no issues. I realise this is really a PC only solution.

Ron Evans

[Al Bergstein]

Thanks Ron. Having worked a lot with Vegas I should have understood that idea, but didn't. I'll work on finding this type of solution. It's probably in the software with the camera, but I didn't think to look there.