Best machine for CS 5.5

Randall Leong · March 10th, 2012, 10:15 AM

Jay,

Although I have not yet found the correlation between the various amounts of RAM in the same system, I have found a chart from one of Bill's posts (post #62 in that thread you linked to) that summarizes the differences in performance between the various GeForce GPUs that he has tested thus far (a GTX 580, a GTX 480, a GTX 560 Ti 448-core, a GTX 285, a GTX 260, a GTX 550 Ti and a 9500 GT, in descending performance order). (Keep in mind that those results were with the various GPUs running on an i7-2600K system that's been overclocked to 4.4GHz running 16GB of RAM at DDR3-1866 speed.) Clearly, you would not want a really cheapo GeForce GPU in any reasonably fast PC according to those results. Also note how close the GTX 560 Ti 448-core came to the GTX 480: At 68 seconds in the MPEG-2 DVD test, it was only one second slower than the 67-second result from the GTX 480 (this despite the GTX 560 Ti 448-core has 320-bit DDR5 video memory versus the GTX 480's 480 CUDA cores and 384-bit DDR5 video memory - the 560 Ti 448 compensates effectively for this deficit with higher clock speeds). And also note that the GTX 550 Ti, despite having the same number of CUDA cores as the GTX 260, came out slightly slower than the GTX 260 due to the slightly lower total memory throughput of the 550 Ti (after all, 192-bit DDR5 RAM in the GTX 550 Ti just can't equal 448-bit DDR3 RAM in the GTX 260).

Jay West · March 10th, 2012, 11:46 AM

Right. When I was doing my "emergency" build, I ran across some of Bill's other charts, and those were helpful to me in settling on a 448 core GTX560ti. I noticed that Bill ran the tests on an I7-2600k with 16 gB of RAM and assumed that was the way to go. I've got a similar system with a similarly OC-ed CPU. (Have not had time to work with the RAM speed, but that does not seem urgent.)

What concerned me about our most recent posts here was the possible implication that PPro on any LGA 1155 system does not make effective use of more than 8 gB of RAM regardless of the CPU you use. If this were the whole story, then we incorrectly advised the OP to upgrade his RAM.

That concern was confusion on my part and that has been allayed.

The most succinct statement of this is the rule of thumb of 2gB/core. With its limited hyperthreading, an i5-2400 is basically a 4 core processor. With only four cores, it does not make economic sense to use more than 8 gB of RAM in that kind of system. That is, with an i5 system, 8gB of RAM is pretty much a performance ceiling for PPRo. What I now understand you to be saying is that there is a possibility that a $500 GPU might give enough of a performance boost for 16gB of RAM to make a difference with PPro in an i5 system.

With systems using an I7-2600k (or 2700k), the CPU's hyperthreading effectively gets you 8 CPU cores. Therefore, having 16gB in the system (i.e., 2gB/core) will give you increased performance with PPro. So, we were not wrong in telling the OP to upgrade his RAM.

Steve Kalle's comment about going to 48 gB of RAM needs a bit of context. Steve is not running an LGA1155 system. If I recall correctly, Steve's workstation runs dual multi-core processors --- possibly nuclear fueled, too ;) --- plus, he does a fair amount of work with After Effects. AE scales with available RAM and does not make much, if any, use of GPU processing. For that kind of work on that kind of system, 24 gB seems like the minimum amount of RAM you would want. 48 gB of RAM could be economically reasonable.

Randy Johnson · March 12th, 2012, 04:13 PM

o.k. sorry I havent replied in a while, I tried the Cineform and it was really fast BUT everytime I try it (which has been a number of times now) The audio is all messed up. Heres a clip.

sound.avi - YouTube

What program should I be using to convert AVCHD footage to Cineform and to edit in Premiere. I am trying Neoscene 5.5

Jay West · March 12th, 2012, 04:59 PM

First, that rattling/clicking sounds to me like what you'd get if your video was recorded with either LPCM audio (such as from a Sony NX5) or in something like 5.1 surround. If that is what the problem is, there is a simple fix. It is described in a support technote on the Cineform website. I also posted on this about a year or so ago in this thread:

Correct instructions for Cineform to read Sony LPCM Audio with AVCHD [Archive] - The Digital Video Information Network

Second, your question is sufficiently off-topic for this thread that you should post your question in the Cineform forum here at DVInfo. Or, better yet, file a trouble ticket with Cineform/GoPro Support. As noted previously, you might also have a compatibility issue with your Intensity Pro card.

Third, if you upgrade your I7-2600k system as suggested, you should be able to easily edit timelines with several streams of native AVCHD without needing to convert it with Cineform Neo.

Randy Johnson · March 12th, 2012, 05:13 PM

ok.sorry about that I was talking about that earlier in the thread I was just following up.

Jay West · March 12th, 2012, 06:54 PM

No need to apologize. That suggestion about a new thread was not meant as criticism. It is just that you might not get many Cineform experts looking here at a thread on at a thread on PPro and computer selection.

Randy Johnson · March 12th, 2012, 07:06 PM

I tried the fix and it didnt work so I posted over at the Cineform forum.

March 10th, 2012, 10:15 AM	#16
Randall Leong Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melrose Park, Illinois, USA Posts: 936	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 Jay, Although I have not yet found the correlation between the various amounts of RAM in the same system, I have found a chart from one of Bill's posts (post #62 in that thread you linked to) that summarizes the differences in performance between the various GeForce GPUs that he has tested thus far (a GTX 580, a GTX 480, a GTX 560 Ti 448-core, a GTX 285, a GTX 260, a GTX 550 Ti and a 9500 GT, in descending performance order). (Keep in mind that those results were with the various GPUs running on an i7-2600K system that's been overclocked to 4.4GHz running 16GB of RAM at DDR3-1866 speed.) Clearly, you would not want a really cheapo GeForce GPU in any reasonably fast PC according to those results. Also note how close the GTX 560 Ti 448-core came to the GTX 480: At 68 seconds in the MPEG-2 DVD test, it was only one second slower than the 67-second result from the GTX 480 (this despite the GTX 560 Ti 448-core has 320-bit DDR5 video memory versus the GTX 480's 480 CUDA cores and 384-bit DDR5 video memory - the 560 Ti 448 compensates effectively for this deficit with higher clock speeds). And also note that the GTX 550 Ti, despite having the same number of CUDA cores as the GTX 260, came out slightly slower than the GTX 260 due to the slightly lower total memory throughput of the 550 Ti (after all, 192-bit DDR5 RAM in the GTX 550 Ti just can't equal 448-bit DDR3 RAM in the GTX 260).

March 10th, 2012, 11:46 AM	#17
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 Right. When I was doing my "emergency" build, I ran across some of Bill's other charts, and those were helpful to me in settling on a 448 core GTX560ti. I noticed that Bill ran the tests on an I7-2600k with 16 gB of RAM and assumed that was the way to go. I've got a similar system with a similarly OC-ed CPU. (Have not had time to work with the RAM speed, but that does not seem urgent.) What concerned me about our most recent posts here was the possible implication that PPro on any LGA 1155 system does not make effective use of more than 8 gB of RAM regardless of the CPU you use. If this were the whole story, then we incorrectly advised the OP to upgrade his RAM. That concern was confusion on my part and that has been allayed. The most succinct statement of this is the rule of thumb of 2gB/core. With its limited hyperthreading, an i5-2400 is basically a 4 core processor. With only four cores, it does not make economic sense to use more than 8 gB of RAM in that kind of system. That is, with an i5 system, 8gB of RAM is pretty much a performance ceiling for PPRo. What I now understand you to be saying is that there is a possibility that a $500 GPU might give enough of a performance boost for 16gB of RAM to make a difference with PPro in an i5 system. With systems using an I7-2600k (or 2700k), the CPU's hyperthreading effectively gets you 8 CPU cores. Therefore, having 16gB in the system (i.e., 2gB/core) will give you increased performance with PPro. So, we were not wrong in telling the OP to upgrade his RAM. Steve Kalle's comment about going to 48 gB of RAM needs a bit of context. Steve is not running an LGA1155 system. If I recall correctly, Steve's workstation runs dual multi-core processors --- possibly nuclear fueled, too ;) --- plus, he does a fair amount of work with After Effects. AE scales with available RAM and does not make much, if any, use of GPU processing. For that kind of work on that kind of system, 24 gB seems like the minimum amount of RAM you would want. 48 gB of RAM could be economically reasonable.

March 12th, 2012, 04:13 PM	#18
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 o.k. sorry I havent replied in a while, I tried the Cineform and it was really fast BUT everytime I try it (which has been a number of times now) The audio is all messed up. Heres a clip. sound.avi - YouTube What program should I be using to convert AVCHD footage to Cineform and to edit in Premiere. I am trying Neoscene 5.5

March 12th, 2012, 04:59 PM	#19
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 First, that rattling/clicking sounds to me like what you'd get if your video was recorded with either LPCM audio (such as from a Sony NX5) or in something like 5.1 surround. If that is what the problem is, there is a simple fix. It is described in a support technote on the Cineform website. I also posted on this about a year or so ago in this thread: Correct instructions for Cineform to read Sony LPCM Audio with AVCHD [Archive] - The Digital Video Information Network Second, your question is sufficiently off-topic for this thread that you should post your question in the Cineform forum here at DVInfo. Or, better yet, file a trouble ticket with Cineform/GoPro Support. As noted previously, you might also have a compatibility issue with your Intensity Pro card. Third, if you upgrade your I7-2600k system as suggested, you should be able to easily edit timelines with several streams of native AVCHD without needing to convert it with Cineform Neo.

March 12th, 2012, 05:13 PM	#20
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 ok.sorry about that I was talking about that earlier in the thread I was just following up.

March 12th, 2012, 06:54 PM	#21
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 No need to apologize. That suggestion about a new thread was not meant as criticism. It is just that you might not get many Cineform experts looking here at a thread on at a thread on PPro and computer selection.

March 12th, 2012, 07:06 PM	#22
Randy Johnson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware Posts: 1,067	Re: Best machine for CS 5.5 I tried the fix and it didnt work so I posted over at the Cineform forum.