Soft picture in DVD export

Randall Leong · March 8th, 2012, 07:26 PM

Thus, if one were to use Encore to author menu-based DVDs, then the only workaround to this would be to import a video file that had already been converted from upper field first to lower field first into Encore. The upper field first HD original may be converted to lower field first SD either by importing the video file into Premiere Pro and then exporting to lower field first SD (this will invoke the MPE GPU acceleration since scaling/resizing will be involved), or better yet using a third-party program or combination of third-party programs (such as the AVIsynth/VirtualDub/HD2SD script combination mentioned several times in these forums) to convert UFF HD to LFF SD. Otherwise, if a UFF file is imported into Encore directly, the wrong fields will be read, resulting in the soft images.

Ann Bens · March 9th, 2012, 06:06 AM

I filed a bugreport a while ago on this.

Bart Walczak · March 9th, 2012, 04:36 PM

Weird, I have been using UFF SD files in Encore for quite some time and did not notice any problems with them, unlike exporting LFF SD DV files from Premiere from UFF HD source (note, it's not only HDV, but also XDCAM EX and any other UFF HD format).

Ann Bens · March 9th, 2012, 05:22 PM

Its not just HDV (which I use) but all kind of footage with UF.

Marc Salvatore · March 11th, 2012, 02:27 AM

I can also recommend Tmpeg. (Been using TMPEG 4.0 Xpress for a while now for HD to SD). I edit my footage in Sony Vegas, render to a Cineform master and then convert to SD in TMPEG. Nice consistent results.

Marc

Randall Leong · March 11th, 2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Weird, I have been using UFF SD files in Encore for quite some time and did not notice any problems with them, unlike exporting LFF SD DV files from Premiere from UFF HD source (note, it's not only HDV, but also XDCAM EX and any other UFF HD format).

Here is a test:

Try importing your UFF SD files into an Encore DVD project. Then, try to create a custom preset for your export format. Look at the video properties box. You'll find that the source field order has been flipped to LFF upon import - and there is absolutely no way at all whatsoever in Encore to re-interpret the field order as UFF. This means that Encore will basically read the wrong fields, resulting in the (very) soft (and often very blurry) images when the video is played back.

Bart Walczak · March 12th, 2012, 05:02 AM

This might be a bug only in displaying the correct field order, not in reading it or encoding. I don't seem to notice any problems after transcoding UFF SD file in Encore, as opposed to transcoding from UFF HD to LFF SD.

I have been using UFF SD files as a workaround to precisely this issue for over a year now. I am pretty familiar with the problem, and from my experience, there is no quality loss when encoding UFF SD files in Encore. The best way to see it is in a credit roll or in any motion graphics element. In my experience it works on both PC and Mac.

However, I'm talking about CS5, not CS5.5 here. CS5.5 might have introduced another bug that I'm not aware of.

Alan Craven · March 12th, 2012, 06:42 AM

There are changes in Encore between the version which comes with Premiere CS5, and that with Premiere CS5.5, but I do not think this is one of them. I have never noticed this field order change, but I am in PAL land - could this be a factor here?

Also I do not use AME to create my DVD legal files, I use Procoder 3, which allows full control over all the parameters.

Randall Leong · March 12th, 2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

This might be a bug only in displaying the correct field order, not in reading it or encoding. I don't seem to notice any problems after transcoding UFF SD file in Encore, as opposed to transcoding from UFF HD to LFF SD.

I have been using UFF SD files as a workaround to precisely this issue for over a year now. I am pretty familiar with the problem, and from my experience, there is no quality loss when encoding UFF SD files in Encore. The best way to see it is in a credit roll or in any motion graphics element. In my experience it works on both PC and Mac.

However, I'm talking about CS5, not CS5.5 here. CS5.5 might have introduced another bug that I'm not aware of.

I take back some of what I stated. The field flipping on import of all UFF SD material occurs primarily at NTSC resolutions and frame rates. This means that all 480-line 59.94 field-per-second UFF SD material gets flipped to LFF on import into Encore. (Though technically, NTSC has 486 lines, not 480 lines, and is UFF at that 486-line resolution. But when consumer video recorders came into existence, they had to cut off six of the lines (three from the top and three from the bottom), making it 480-line LFF.)

PAL, on the other hand, has a field refresh rate of 50 fields per second. Unless Dynamic Link messes that up, all PAL SD material is assumed to be UFF as far as Encore is concerned. This could, however, cause problems with PAL DV material as many PAL DV camcorders record LFF instead of UFF.

Ann Bens · March 12th, 2012, 01:37 PM

It does not make any difference if its ntsc or pal, when using DL with upper field in the timeline, which is usually HD, or mpeg from dvd camera's or maybe Matrox still captures in upper? it flips the fields to lower.
If one encodes outside Encore its not an issue.

March 8th, 2012, 07:26 PM	#16
Randall Leong Major Player Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Melrose Park, Illinois, USA Posts: 936	Re: Soft picture in DVD export Thus, if one were to use Encore to author menu-based DVDs, then the only workaround to this would be to import a video file that had already been converted from upper field first to lower field first into Encore. The upper field first HD original may be converted to lower field first SD either by importing the video file into Premiere Pro and then exporting to lower field first SD (this will invoke the MPE GPU acceleration since scaling/resizing will be involved), or better yet using a third-party program or combination of third-party programs (such as the AVIsynth/VirtualDub/HD2SD script combination mentioned several times in these forums) to convert UFF HD to LFF SD. Otherwise, if a UFF file is imported into Encore directly, the wrong fields will be read, resulting in the soft images.

March 9th, 2012, 06:06 AM	#17
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	Re: Soft picture in DVD export I filed a bugreport a while ago on this.

March 9th, 2012, 04:36 PM	#18
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Soft picture in DVD export Weird, I have been using UFF SD files in Encore for quite some time and did not notice any problems with them, unlike exporting LFF SD DV files from Premiere from UFF HD source (note, it's not only HDV, but also XDCAM EX and any other UFF HD format). __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

March 9th, 2012, 05:22 PM	#19
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	Re: Soft picture in DVD export Its not just HDV (which I use) but all kind of footage with UF.

March 11th, 2012, 02:27 AM	#20
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Re: Soft picture in DVD export I can also recommend Tmpeg. (Been using TMPEG 4.0 Xpress for a while now for HD to SD). I edit my footage in Sony Vegas, render to a Cineform master and then convert to SD in TMPEG. Nice consistent results. Marc

March 12th, 2012, 05:02 AM	#22
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Soft picture in DVD export This might be a bug only in displaying the correct field order, not in reading it or encoding. I don't seem to notice any problems after transcoding UFF SD file in Encore, as opposed to transcoding from UFF HD to LFF SD. I have been using UFF SD files as a workaround to precisely this issue for over a year now. I am pretty familiar with the problem, and from my experience, there is no quality loss when encoding UFF SD files in Encore. The best way to see it is in a credit roll or in any motion graphics element. In my experience it works on both PC and Mac. However, I'm talking about CS5, not CS5.5 here. CS5.5 might have introduced another bug that I'm not aware of. __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

March 12th, 2012, 06:42 AM	#23
Alan Craven Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: York, England Posts: 518	Re: Soft picture in DVD export There are changes in Encore between the version which comes with Premiere CS5, and that with Premiere CS5.5, but I do not think this is one of them. I have never noticed this field order change, but I am in PAL land - could this be a factor here? Also I do not use AME to create my DVD legal files, I use Procoder 3, which allows full control over all the parameters.

March 12th, 2012, 01:37 PM	#25
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	Re: Soft picture in DVD export It does not make any difference if its ntsc or pal, when using DL with upper field in the timeline, which is usually HD, or mpeg from dvd camera's or maybe Matrox still captures in upper? it flips the fields to lower. If one encodes outside Encore its not an issue.