SD edit format? at DVinfo.net

Robert Bobson · August 29th, 2011, 05:33 AM

We're shooting in HD, but editing in widescreen SD for final DVD.

I notice in PPro cs5.5 there are two formats for SD widescreen we could edit in: "widescreen DV" or "dvcpro50".

would there be an advantage to "dvcpro50"? again, it's shot in HD...

thanks

Alan Craven · August 29th, 2011, 08:37 AM

It is generally reckoned to be better to edit in the HD format of the recording, and then down convert for authoring the DVD. Premiere has traditionally not been good at the down-conversion, and various ways of getting superior quality are descibed on the net.

I believe that the Media Encoder with CS5 is supposed to give better results than earlier versions.

Jay West · August 29th, 2011, 01:02 PM

As for whether it is "thought to be better to edit HD in HD," I certainly agree with Alan. But opinions and needs differ. The available computer hardware also plays a role. For some folks, editing on an SD timeline can provide advantages for file size, render speed, etc. See this recent discussion:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/adobe-cr...etter-way.html

On the original question, DVCPro 50 is a Panasonic format that runs at double the standard DV data rate (meaning it is less compressed) and has a larger color space than standard DV. So, in theory, converting to DVCPro50 could be kind of like using Cineform intermediates and could make for more precise matching between different camera views. It also might help with high-motion-high-contrast footage (think dance performances in front of a dark curtain or mountain bike racing.) The one time I tried this, however, I did not really see any difference in the final output to DVD. Might have been the case that my footage was such that the increased bit depths didn't make any real difference. Might be that I did not look closely enough.

Since this may well be a "YMMV" situation, I suggest you take a recent project you did in SD, copy a timeline (that is "block and copy" not "nesting") and paste it into a new timeline using a DVCPro 50 preset. Then follow your usual workflow for going to DVD. See if you observe any differences in editing and render speeds, motion depiction, color matching.

Bart Walczak · August 30th, 2011, 07:44 AM

Essentially you're only choosing the codec for rendered files, which you might choose not to use when exporting to DVD or anywhere else, so unless you're doing some heavy color correction and/or motion graphics, the answer is: it does not matter :)

Steve Kalle · August 30th, 2011, 01:29 PM

Am I missing something here? The choice of sequence preset has NOTHING to do with exported files - only Preview files. It is nothing like Cineform where you convert your source footage to Cineform and then edit with the new Cineform files. What you are talking about is just a difference in rendered 'Preview' files.

Jay West · August 30th, 2011, 08:30 PM

Good point, Steve. I had leapt ahead and just assumed that he would be converting the footage before editing -- a kind of low grade stab at replicating some of what Cineform does. Simply using a DVCPro preset otherwise would not make any difference, as Bart so accurately points out, as well.

Robert Bobson · August 31st, 2011, 05:45 AM

I'm using a widescreen SD project and timeline.

We're distributing on DVD, and the archival footage we're incorporating is non-widescreen SD, so it's working fine.

Thanks for all the replies ~

August 29th, 2011, 05:33 AM	#1
Robert Bobson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 585	SD edit format? We're shooting in HD, but editing in widescreen SD for final DVD. I notice in PPro cs5.5 there are two formats for SD widescreen we could edit in: "widescreen DV" or "dvcpro50". would there be an advantage to "dvcpro50"? again, it's shot in HD... thanks

August 29th, 2011, 08:37 AM	#2
Alan Craven Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: York, England Posts: 518	Re: SD edit format? It is generally reckoned to be better to edit in the HD format of the recording, and then down convert for authoring the DVD. Premiere has traditionally not been good at the down-conversion, and various ways of getting superior quality are descibed on the net. I believe that the Media Encoder with CS5 is supposed to give better results than earlier versions.

August 29th, 2011, 01:02 PM	#3
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: SD edit format? As for whether it is "thought to be better to edit HD in HD," I certainly agree with Alan. But opinions and needs differ. The available computer hardware also plays a role. For some folks, editing on an SD timeline can provide advantages for file size, render speed, etc. See this recent discussion: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/adobe-cr...etter-way.html On the original question, DVCPro 50 is a Panasonic format that runs at double the standard DV data rate (meaning it is less compressed) and has a larger color space than standard DV. So, in theory, converting to DVCPro50 could be kind of like using Cineform intermediates and could make for more precise matching between different camera views. It also might help with high-motion-high-contrast footage (think dance performances in front of a dark curtain or mountain bike racing.) The one time I tried this, however, I did not really see any difference in the final output to DVD. Might have been the case that my footage was such that the increased bit depths didn't make any real difference. Might be that I did not look closely enough. Since this may well be a "YMMV" situation, I suggest you take a recent project you did in SD, copy a timeline (that is "block and copy" not "nesting") and paste it into a new timeline using a DVCPro 50 preset. Then follow your usual workflow for going to DVD. See if you observe any differences in editing and render speeds, motion depiction, color matching.

August 30th, 2011, 07:44 AM	#4
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: SD edit format? Essentially you're only choosing the codec for rendered files, which you might choose not to use when exporting to DVD or anywhere else, so unless you're doing some heavy color correction and/or motion graphics, the answer is: it does not matter :) __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

August 30th, 2011, 01:29 PM	#5
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Re: SD edit format? Am I missing something here? The choice of sequence preset has NOTHING to do with exported files - only Preview files. It is nothing like Cineform where you convert your source footage to Cineform and then edit with the new Cineform files. What you are talking about is just a difference in rendered 'Preview' files.

August 30th, 2011, 08:30 PM	#6
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: SD edit format? Good point, Steve. I had leapt ahead and just assumed that he would be converting the footage before editing -- a kind of low grade stab at replicating some of what Cineform does. Simply using a DVCPro preset otherwise would not make any difference, as Bart so accurately points out, as well.

August 31st, 2011, 05:45 AM	#7
Robert Bobson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 585	Re: SD edit format? I'm using a widescreen SD project and timeline. We're distributing on DVD, and the archival footage we're incorporating is non-widescreen SD, so it's working fine. Thanks for all the replies ~