Sell me on Premiere at DVinfo.net

Bill Edmunds · August 6th, 2011, 10:30 AM

Adobe is offering a huge discount to FCP users who want to switch to Premiere. I'm testing out the trial version, and it looks fairly nice... but I'm not seeing anything "better" than Final Cut, and it still appears to have the worst page turn/curl in NLE history (the SAME one I was using back in 1998!). I'm open to your wisdom! Sell me on Premiere's greatness!

Adam Gold · August 6th, 2011, 02:10 PM

Nope. No way. Not a chance. If you're happy with Final Cut you should stick with it. Just because I like Premiere doesn't mean I'm going to try to sell you on it. Because if you switch and don't like it or, God forbid, lose a project, you're going to blame me, and frankly I have enough problems already. I don't need that.

My mother-in-law is from Mahblehead, so I already have a cranky New Englander in my life. ;-)

Okay, to be serious for a moment, your workflow is a personal thing and you might not find Premiere an improvement. I'm sure the Adobe web pages have plenty of reasons they think you should switch but they are written by salespeople. Only you know, via your time with the trial, whether they are valid. I tried FCP after using Premiere and FCP made no sense to me. Others have the opposite experience. You may find that things you can do quickly and easily in FCP are stupid and ungainly in Premiere. Or you may find them a breeze.

Justin Molush · August 6th, 2011, 02:20 PM

The largest, most important feature to me in premiere is the round trip ability of Pr <-> Ae

If your doing a lot of compositing, its HUGE.

Battle Vaughan · August 6th, 2011, 03:06 PM

One word: FCPX.

Robert Young · August 6th, 2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan

One word: FCPX.

This truely is the problem.
You can stay with FCP 7- for a while, but eventually you'll need to step into the future.
Otherwise, if you need a full featured Pro NLE, your choices are limited.
CS5.5 will certainly do the job- NLE, Motion Graphics, Still Image/Compositing, Audio Editing/Finishing, DVD/BD Authoring- all dynamically linked together in one package.
Whatever you try will be annoyingly different, but you do have some choices & you could certainly do worse than CS5.5

John Richard · August 7th, 2011, 08:41 AM

If you are used to working with FCP7 or earlier, then switching to CS5.5 is an easy learning curve.

Match it up with the right computer spec and Cuda graphics card (only 2 Mac choices at this time) and you will love leaving all the FCP 7 render time behind. I decided to switch after NAB preview of FCPX because I could see that for me FCPX would be a long time in getting up to speed as well as the missng "Studio" approach. Could have stayed with FCP7 Studio ... but it would stay at slow 32 bt ... it would no longer be supported - no updates and fixes ... and FCPX was entirely different in all aspects. So if I was being forced to invest in the learning curve - why not learn something more like I was used too ... was already more mature in stable ... was part of a true suite of apps ... and was coming from a company that appeared to be in the hunt for the professional market with some longevity .... worked with my Blackmagic I/O ... could use an external proper monitor for color grading and client review ....

I loved FCP Studio - I would still be there if they had merely gone to 64 bit speed with some improvements and changes ... but stuck with the same paradigm that was (and still is) so great. Many report liking FCPX so it's a personal choice of course. But I know a few houses that had a ton of $'s invested in the FCP workflow that are mad as hell that their investment is trashed for the future if they want to upgrade to 64 bit to be competitive.

Over the years we have used Premiere (back in the 4.0 days), Edius (with their hardware - nothing could touch this combo for speed), and FCP. Last 5 yrs we were mostly FCP ... until June 2011 - now we are back to Premiere and it's suite of apps and have never been happier to gain the speed - it's a learning curve to be sure - but the basics are much the same as FCP7.

The only concern we have is ... what will the Apple Op System do that cripples CS5.5 on the Mac?

Lion already is a No-No

Bill Pryor · August 7th, 2011, 12:52 PM

Wow...haven't seen a page curl effect in many years. That brings back the good old days for sure.

But on the topic, I am in the process of switching from FCP to Premiere Pro. Bought the CS5.5 package to take advantage of the huge discount. I spent a few hours on a weekend looking at some online training, then finished my first project with it week before last. The learning curve from FCP is easy. Moving old FCP projects over is easy. The only challenge for me is to learn enough about After Effects to replace Motion. I have two different series I do regularly that Motion opening and closings, so I have to rebuild that template in AE. Then I'll be ready to switch 100%.

The title tool is almost as good as Avid's and saves me a lot of time. The Warp Stabilizer (which is in AE but it's easy) is better than FCP's Smoothcam. I did a hand held walking shot down a row of people at desks, 35mm on a 5DII, and the result after the Warp Stabilizer treatment is so good I'm seriously thinking about selling the Steadicam.

There are some things you have to research and learn...audio, for example, can be tricky. It brings in any 2-channel track as a single stereo track, but you can overcome that by switching the preferences to the way the audio import should be, ie., with 2 separate track. So there are little things like that which may slow you down at first. My first project would have taken me about a day and a half in FCP, it took me about a day longer in PP, due to stopping to search for help. For example, while making my first title was a no-brainer and much faster than going out to Motion as in FCP, I couldn't figure out how to save the title. Took me half an hour of fooling around, then had to go to the help menu to find out that ll I had to do was close the title tool and it automatically saves right to the browser.Some things are so simple they are elusive.

Bart Walczak · August 7th, 2011, 01:57 PM

What I like the most are three things:
1. Ability to work natively with virtually any format you can think of, no transcoding.
2. Audio mixer being essentially multitrack editor with track effects, automation using VST plugins
3. Optimization for multi-core. Once you start rendering, you will see 100% on each and every core, including hyperthreading. Even FCPX does not come close.

Plus CUDA acceleration, if you're lucky enough to have proper nVidia card, and multitude other nice things, but these are the three that really make it worthwhile.

Peter Manojlovic · August 7th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Hey Bill...

Definately stick with FCP7...My customers demand some serious page curls, and Premiere isn't up to the task.

But seriously....
I agree with everything the above already mentioned. Another factor to consider is future proofing..This is where i believe FCP decided to change their strategy, and hope that everybody will be using tapeless workflows, drop third party hardware support, and join the collective...
I believe the people at Adobe have gained the momentum, and slightly surpassed, to the point where FCPx won't catch up..

Hopefully, Adobe will get some more FCP users input, and Apple like GUI, and put the nail in the coffin for the CS6.0 release.

Paul Russell · August 7th, 2011, 10:33 PM

Premiere on PC (W7) is just about the buggiest, most nasty, unreliable piece of software I've ever used.

Kevin Currie · August 7th, 2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

Premiere on PC (W7) is just about the buggiest, most nasty, unreliable piece of software I've ever used.

It must have been your system, because I run Premiere on Win7 and it works like a dream. Same goes for many other people I've talked to. I had a few problems with Vista, but so did everybody.

To the OT, I can't really add anything to what everyone else has said, except to say that since FCPX was released, a LOT of tutorials and webinars have popped up on the web dealing with how to make the switch from FCP to Premiere.

Paul Russell · August 7th, 2011, 11:16 PM

Kevin: I can't even open a project that I had open a month ago. Premiere just locks up and the screen goes white. Eventually it will reappear but as soon as I try to do anything the big whiteout occurs again and we go in to 'Premiere is not responding' mode for another five minutes. I'm pretty sure that it's linked to either the QT server or the cineform files in the project, but it's a nasty error and Premiere is not giving out any information to help me solve it.

I also run Vegas 10, which runs flawlessly on the same machine, and handles any source file without complaining. It's easier to use, faster and has better workflow.

Kevin Currie · August 8th, 2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

Kevin: I can't even open a project that I had open a month ago. Premiere just locks up and the screen goes white. Eventually it will reappear but as soon as I try to do anything the big whiteout occurs again and we go in to 'Premiere is not responding' mode for another five minutes. I'm pretty sure that it's linked to either the QT server or the cineform files in the project, but it's a nasty error and Premiere is not giving out any information to help me solve it.

Did you also notice the your project file had bloated to a huge size, which would cause the "not responding" or slow it right down? This was a known bug and was fixed with an update. Then again, if everyone loved Premiere there would be no need for Vegas, FCP and the others. :)

Paul Russell · August 8th, 2011, 12:51 AM

the project file is only 7Mb and I'm on version 5.0.3.
I've already upgraded to the latest Cineform Neo and my QT to 7.7 and now I'm going to upgrade to CS5.5 to see if this fixes it. Expensive morning :-)

Noa Put · August 8th, 2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan

One word: FCPX.

One word: integration :)

The integration of programs like premiere/encore/photoshop/aftereffects is unrivaled. I specifically like working on a dvd in encore and then open photoshop to make changes to the menu exactly the way I want it and have the menu updated in encore without ever leaving both programs. It certainly speeds up your workflow and gives bigger creative freedom. Btw; for editing I hardly use premiere pro 5 anymore but use edius pro 5 as it's faster then premiere for straight edits, even as 32bit program and without gpu (mpe like) support. But for the creative stuff you can't beat adobe's integration with their programs.

August 6th, 2011, 10:30 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	Sell me on Premiere Adobe is offering a huge discount to FCP users who want to switch to Premiere. I'm testing out the trial version, and it looks fairly nice... but I'm not seeing anything "better" than Final Cut, and it still appears to have the worst page turn/curl in NLE history (the SAME one I was using back in 1998!). I'm open to your wisdom! Sell me on Premiere's greatness!

August 6th, 2011, 02:10 PM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: Sell me on Premiere Nope. No way. Not a chance. If you're happy with Final Cut you should stick with it. Just because I like Premiere doesn't mean I'm going to try to sell you on it. Because if you switch and don't like it or, God forbid, lose a project, you're going to blame me, and frankly I have enough problems already. I don't need that. My mother-in-law is from Mahblehead, so I already have a cranky New Englander in my life. ;-) Okay, to be serious for a moment, your workflow is a personal thing and you might not find Premiere an improvement. I'm sure the Adobe web pages have plenty of reasons they think you should switch but they are written by salespeople. Only you know, via your time with the trial, whether they are valid. I tried FCP after using Premiere and FCP made no sense to me. Others have the opposite experience. You may find that things you can do quickly and easily in FCP are stupid and ungainly in Premiere. Or you may find them a breeze. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

August 6th, 2011, 02:20 PM	#3
Justin Molush Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 388	Re: Sell me on Premiere The largest, most important feature to me in premiere is the round trip ability of Pr <-> Ae If your doing a lot of compositing, its HUGE.

August 6th, 2011, 03:06 PM	#4
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Re: Sell me on Premiere One word: FCPX.

August 7th, 2011, 08:41 AM	#6
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	Re: Sell me on Premiere If you are used to working with FCP7 or earlier, then switching to CS5.5 is an easy learning curve. Match it up with the right computer spec and Cuda graphics card (only 2 Mac choices at this time) and you will love leaving all the FCP 7 render time behind. I decided to switch after NAB preview of FCPX because I could see that for me FCPX would be a long time in getting up to speed as well as the missng "Studio" approach. Could have stayed with FCP7 Studio ... but it would stay at slow 32 bt ... it would no longer be supported - no updates and fixes ... and FCPX was entirely different in all aspects. So if I was being forced to invest in the learning curve - why not learn something more like I was used too ... was already more mature in stable ... was part of a true suite of apps ... and was coming from a company that appeared to be in the hunt for the professional market with some longevity .... worked with my Blackmagic I/O ... could use an external proper monitor for color grading and client review .... I loved FCP Studio - I would still be there if they had merely gone to 64 bit speed with some improvements and changes ... but stuck with the same paradigm that was (and still is) so great. Many report liking FCPX so it's a personal choice of course. But I know a few houses that had a ton of $'s invested in the FCP workflow that are mad as hell that their investment is trashed for the future if they want to upgrade to 64 bit to be competitive. Over the years we have used Premiere (back in the 4.0 days), Edius (with their hardware - nothing could touch this combo for speed), and FCP. Last 5 yrs we were mostly FCP ... until June 2011 - now we are back to Premiere and it's suite of apps and have never been happier to gain the speed - it's a learning curve to be sure - but the basics are much the same as FCP7. The only concern we have is ... what will the Apple Op System do that cripples CS5.5 on the Mac? Lion already is a No-No

August 7th, 2011, 12:52 PM	#7
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Re: Sell me on Premiere Wow...haven't seen a page curl effect in many years. That brings back the good old days for sure. But on the topic, I am in the process of switching from FCP to Premiere Pro. Bought the CS5.5 package to take advantage of the huge discount. I spent a few hours on a weekend looking at some online training, then finished my first project with it week before last. The learning curve from FCP is easy. Moving old FCP projects over is easy. The only challenge for me is to learn enough about After Effects to replace Motion. I have two different series I do regularly that Motion opening and closings, so I have to rebuild that template in AE. Then I'll be ready to switch 100%. The title tool is almost as good as Avid's and saves me a lot of time. The Warp Stabilizer (which is in AE but it's easy) is better than FCP's Smoothcam. I did a hand held walking shot down a row of people at desks, 35mm on a 5DII, and the result after the Warp Stabilizer treatment is so good I'm seriously thinking about selling the Steadicam. There are some things you have to research and learn...audio, for example, can be tricky. It brings in any 2-channel track as a single stereo track, but you can overcome that by switching the preferences to the way the audio import should be, ie., with 2 separate track. So there are little things like that which may slow you down at first. My first project would have taken me about a day and a half in FCP, it took me about a day longer in PP, due to stopping to search for help. For example, while making my first title was a no-brainer and much faster than going out to Motion as in FCP, I couldn't figure out how to save the title. Took me half an hour of fooling around, then had to go to the help menu to find out that ll I had to do was close the title tool and it automatically saves right to the browser.Some things are so simple they are elusive.

August 7th, 2011, 01:57 PM	#8
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Sell me on Premiere What I like the most are three things: 1. Ability to work natively with virtually any format you can think of, no transcoding. 2. Audio mixer being essentially multitrack editor with track effects, automation using VST plugins 3. Optimization for multi-core. Once you start rendering, you will see 100% on each and every core, including hyperthreading. Even FCPX does not come close. Plus CUDA acceleration, if you're lucky enough to have proper nVidia card, and multitude other nice things, but these are the three that really make it worthwhile. __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

August 7th, 2011, 07:58 PM	#9
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Re: Sell me on Premiere Hey Bill... Definately stick with FCP7...My customers demand some serious page curls, and Premiere isn't up to the task. But seriously.... I agree with everything the above already mentioned. Another factor to consider is future proofing..This is where i believe FCP decided to change their strategy, and hope that everybody will be using tapeless workflows, drop third party hardware support, and join the collective... I believe the people at Adobe have gained the momentum, and slightly surpassed, to the point where FCPx won't catch up.. Hopefully, Adobe will get some more FCP users input, and Apple like GUI, and put the nail in the coffin for the CS6.0 release.

August 7th, 2011, 10:33 PM	#10
Paul Russell New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	Re: Sell me on Premiere Premiere on PC (W7) is just about the buggiest, most nasty, unreliable piece of software I've ever used.

August 7th, 2011, 11:16 PM	#12
Paul Russell New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	Re: Sell me on Premiere Kevin: I can't even open a project that I had open a month ago. Premiere just locks up and the screen goes white. Eventually it will reappear but as soon as I try to do anything the big whiteout occurs again and we go in to 'Premiere is not responding' mode for another five minutes. I'm pretty sure that it's linked to either the QT server or the cineform files in the project, but it's a nasty error and Premiere is not giving out any information to help me solve it. I also run Vegas 10, which runs flawlessly on the same machine, and handles any source file without complaining. It's easier to use, faster and has better workflow.

August 8th, 2011, 12:51 AM	#14
Paul Russell New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 12	Re: Sell me on Premiere the project file is only 7Mb and I'm on version 5.0.3. I've already upgraded to the latest Cineform Neo and my QT to 7.7 and now I'm going to upgrade to CS5.5 to see if this fixes it. Expensive morning :-)