PPro / AE / Encore project communication

[Bruce Watson]

I had a project that used just PPro and Encore to make a DVD. All set up with menus and buttons that matched up with the PPro chapter markers, all that. Works fine.

But the client wanted to do more work. Wanted more sophisticated color grading, and motion graphics for the lower thirds. So, months later, I opened up the PPro project in AE and went to work. So far, so good.

Now that I'm ready to reintegrate it, it dawns on me that I don't really know how. I've basically got two projects instead of one. I'm thinking I should be able to use dynamic link to import the AE changes to PPro. But how, exactly, does it want me to accomplish this? When I pull up "File...Adobe Dynamic Link...Import After Effects Composition" and navigate to the *.aep file, the pop-up window gives me the option to import all the bits and pieces, or just individual bits. Do I want to import everything?

And once I import whatever it is I'm supposed to import, what do I do with it? In other words, how do I get the AE changes into my PPro timeline? I'd obviously like to have Encore still be able to find the chapter markers, etc.

I'm just asking before I screw up a lot of work...

I keep telling myself that eventually I won't be such an Adobe newbie. I've been telling myself that for years now. ;-)

[Bruce Watson]

Maybe what I'm supposed to do is export from AE into PPro? As in "File...Export...Adobe Premiere Pro Project". That actually looks like it might be the "proper" way.

I am confused, I admit it.

[Robert Baynosa]

dynamic linking should be the tech that pushes ppro ahead of all the other nle's. the ability to switch to ppro and ae without the need to render you projects is theoretically such a big boost to productivity.

however wehn i use dynamic linking my timeline slow to a crawl in ppo and when i try t render in ame it seems to take much longer when i have a dynamically linked ppro file on que. in short, it seems to have no effect at the very lest or even a detrimental effect at the very worst.

i do my stuff though on my 2630m, 12gb, 485m, dual 500hdd sandybridge laptop. it is by no means a slouch, but i was wondering if people with more robust workstations and desktops see the full benefits of dynamic linking.

[Bruce Watson]

I created a project in Premiere Pro. Did all my editing, etc. Then I started AE and imported the Premiere Pro project. I could see all the edits from PPro, etc.

But when I go back to Premiere Pro, I don't see the motion graphics that I added in AE. Clearly, I've done something wrong. But what? And, how do I recover from it?

I should add that if I make a change in PPro, I see it immediately in AE. Just not the other way around. Dynamic Link is a one way street?

I'm thinking that the problem might be that I saved the project in AE using a different file name. Should the AE project use the same name as the PPro project, but with the *.aep extension?

[Pete Bauer]

It is one way; dynamic link won't allow circular references, including sequences and comps that are nested inside other ones. Either an AE comp is treated as a clip in PPro, or a PPro sequence is treated as an asset in AE. If they simultaneously referred to each other, it would create an endless loop.

But, you can use any number of AE comps in a PPro project and multiple instances of a given AE comp throughout a PPro project, as well as vice versa. And you can make distinct copies of a sequence or comp with different names and use them to effectively have a two-way flow, as long as you're using duplicate source so there isn't a circular data path. I've personally never run into a need to do that, but I would think that should work alright.

The file name doesn't matter, although if you do a "Save As..." the link stays with the original file, not the new one.

[Rob Morse]

Bruce,

I wish I could answer some of the questions you have in the various posts. I hope you get an answer because it seems as though I'll be running into these issues at some point myself. Did it put an icon in the project folder when you created the link?

Rob

[Bruce Watson]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

It is one way; dynamic link won't allow circular references, including sequences and comps that are nested inside other ones. Either an AE comp is treated as a clip in PPro, or a PPro sequence is treated as an asset in AE. If they simultaneously referred to each other, it would create an endless loop.

I'm still confused. And I'm probably confusing everyone else as a result. Some context might be in order.

This project is basically a single clip -- it's an hour long class, taught in real time in front of an audience, captured with a single camera. Now, there was some stuff edited out, maybe five minutes worth from the entire hour. And some slides and photographs overlay the video while the sound (teacher's voice) continues on underneath it. All this done in PPro.

Then in AE, I did some light color grading resulting in a couple of layers that overlay the entire hour of video. Then there's like 20 layers that include AE motion comps (most just simple lower thirds that slide on/off the screen when needed).

I don't see how I can use any of what I did in AE as "a clip" in PPro. That implies that it fits in somewhere horizontally (shoe horned into the time line) when what I've got needs to fit in vertically over the entire time line.

When you said "Either an AE comp is treated as a clip in PPro, or a PPro sequence is treated as an asset in AE." Clearly, I did the latter. And what I'm hearing you say is that there's no way that PPro is going to see the changes from AE under these conditions. Yes? Bummer. Dynamic linking isn't as useful as I'd hoped then.

Hmmm.....

What this is making me think is that the "way out" if there is such a thing is to build a new Encore project -- this time importing the AE project as the main asset instead of the PPro project. That way Encore would see the PPro edits, plus the AE motion graphics just the way that AE sees them. Yes?

[Pete Bauer]

however wehn i use dynamic linking my timeline slow to a crawl in ppo

Not sure why you're having difficulties, unless your comps are really complex and/or use enough processor-intensive effects to choke your system a bit. If the comp lags in AE without linking, it'll lag when DL'ed as well.

On a middle-of the road business laptop (4GB RAM, one HDD, no GPU accel), fairly simple projects Dynamic Link between AE and PPro happen in real time. No hiccups. Of course that wouldn't be true with really big projects, but it does say that the DL technology itself isn't the roadblock.

[Chris Hurd]

(just merged two similar threads on the same topic)

[Walter Brokx]

@Bruce:

you put PP into AE.
Let's disribe it in a math-kind of way: AE=x[PP]
AE=AE
x=changes in AE
PP=PP
This means all changes are outside of the PP-project.

Opening PP doesn't show the changes because: PP=AE/x (AE without the changes).

You can, however, open a new PP-project (let's call it PP2) and insert the AE composition with the other PP inside of it.
PP2=y[AE]=y[x[PP]]

You say this way there no use using dynamic linking: this is not true:
- You save diskspace by not rendering the PP-project
- You don't have to rebuild your edit (crossfades, etc) in AE
- You can still make changes in your edit.

------------------------------

Personally I like to use dynamic-linking the othe way around: I embed AE compositions.
This way I can see much faster whether the comp works in the edit.

[Robert Baynosa]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Not sure why you're having difficulties, unless your comps are really complex and/or use enough processor-intensive effects to choke your system a bit. If the comp lags in AE without linking, it'll lag when DL'ed as well.

On a middle-of the road business laptop (4GB RAM, one HDD, no GPU accel), fairly simple projects Dynamic Link between AE and PPro happen in real time. No hiccups. Of course that wouldn't be true with really big projects, but it does say that the DL technology itself isn't the roadblock.

well i do it on my laptop but my laptop ( specs above) is probably the best you can get at current tech levels.
when i view the comp in ae it lags but when i render it with ram preview then its all smooth as it should be. when i view the same comp in ppro thru dynamic link it lags but even if i 'render effects in work area' it still lags- even worse than the pre rendered ae version.

i have to note however that my work files and scratch disks are on my 5400rpm hdd data disk. could this be the culprit?

[Bruce Watson]

Stumped the group. That doesn't happen everyday.

Anyone who's interested, and it doesn't look like many are, the answer turns out to be that dynamic links aren't all that. They are one way streets. I can make changes in PPro and see them in AE, but not the other way around. And that, apparently, is just the way it works. I wish the Adobe literature read that way. At least, I wish that's what I got when I read the Abobe manuals.

[Kevin Currie]

I think it is all in how you are getting the clips/comps/assets into the other program.
I think if you use "Import" then you are stuck in that 1 program. I have only 1 project on the go right now that has a lot of PPro clips going back and forth.with AE, and what I do is edit everything in PPro, then select a clip that need AE effects and choose "Replace with AE Comp". I can then work in AE and the results will show up in PPro. Same goes if I send something from PPro to Photoshop. When I'm done, I use "Send to Encore" which opens my PPro sequence in Encore. If I make any more changes in PPro, they will show up in Encore right away. The one I use most often is editing Encore menus in PS.

I have a slower computer, so when I bring the AE comps back into PPro, it does tend to slow down my timeline quite a bit (depending on the AE Effects used), so once I am positive that the clip is perfect, I do render it in AE and replace the DL clip in PPro.

[Bogdan Nicolau]

Hello,
I have to say that I watched the video from another site but I think it refers to CS4, because my workflow is something like that, edit clips in PPro, just cuts, PIP, transitions and basic sound manipulations (adding soundtrack, mixing songs, turn up-down volume, etc...Then - a very important step - is to DUPLICATE the main sequence in the project panel with a suggestive name, like "sequence01ToAE".I never send to AE via dynamic link the original cutted sequence.After AE opens and all the footage is ordered in the timeline, i check the project settings and save the *.AEP project with the same name as the sequence from PPro like "Sequence01ToAE" (just a personal taste for keeping things in order), then i proceed to do things like adding masks, titles and animate them, deinterlace (if HDV), color correct, stabilize, tracking objects and so on.When I finish all the work i save and close AE and i return to PPro and take a break (15-20 min) for a 90-120 min project because Premiere will have to reconform all the modified footage.One important thing is when Premiere is doing all the reconform an instance of AE is open in background, even that i closed the main interface.When everything is done, i can scrub on the timeline and see all the modifications done in AE.From this point I think I have two choices, export the footage from Pr directly or via Media Encoder or send it to Encore, and transcode, build menus and export to disk image *.iso (my preference not to burn the disk from Encore).

This is my workflow and it works.

I never tried to re edit a thing in premiere, when I've sent it already to AE.When i do things in AE, i consider the work DONE in PPro.I will make a test to see what happens.

I hope you'll solve the problem.

[Walter Brokx]

Originally Posted by Kevin Currie

......................

I have a slower computer, so when I bring the AE comps back into PPro, it does tend to slow down my timeline quite a bit (depending on the AE Effects used), so once I am positive that the clip is perfect, I do render it in AE and replace the DL clip in PPro.

This is also smart when certain parts are OKed, but other parts of the edit still need some work.
Render the OKed parts when you're having dinner or when you are asleep to save time in the final render. With tight deadlines and complex compositions this workflow can really save you :-)