CS5's PAL 16:9 aspect ratio is WRONG

[Walter Brokx]

Slightly off-topic thought:

Maybe it's just the nature of the Anglo-Saxon part of the world to use strange metrics (ounce, stone, inch, gallon, Fahrenheid, feet, yard), where one needs to add extra factors to be able to calculate anything? :-p

[Steve Sykes]

I have just skimmed through this thread as I too was concerned about these black strips appearing. I have tried to export my EX1 footage down to SD Pal but I see these bars on my HD TV not just my monitor! I know my camera records native 16:9 with square pixels and it fills my TV screen when shown in HD so surely it should look identical but with lower resolution when shown in SD with no black strips on the sides. Can someone confirm that this shouldn't have happened!

[Ann Bens]

If you did not crop on output you will have these small vertical bars.
Cropping for PAL is 14 pixels top and 12 on the bottom instead of 13 top and bottom. This is preventing unwanted field change.

[Steve Sykes]

Originally Posted by Ann Bens

If you did not crop on output you will have these small vertical bars.
Cropping for PAL is 14 pixels top and 12 on the bottom instead of 13 top and bottom. This is preventing unwanted field change.

I understand how to make the picture fill the screen by cropping it but as discussed in this thread that does not produce the correct aspect ratio.

If I have understood this thread correctly it was mentioned that when you play the footage back on a TV through a DVD player then the black lines should disappear but on my LCD TV they don't! Also if my HD picture fills the screen fully either 1080x1920 or 720x1280 then surely the complete downsized picture in SD should still fill my screen maintaining the correct aspect ratio. It appears not to in my case why???

[Dave Jervis]

Hi Steve, ....sorry, been busy and have neglected this thread.....

Sorry to hear you're still seeing the black bars... could you tell me how the DVD is connected to the TV ....HDMI, SCART, component, video...? If you are using HDMI or component, are you using a DVD player which "upscales"?

Also is the TV a purpose built television or a dual purpose computer monitor/television ?

...and finally, is there a setting on your television that removes overscan?

As I previously mentioned to Ernesto (on Feb. 13th), for all this stuff to be correct depends on hardware manufacturers (TVs, DVD players etc.) understanding the correct settings as well, especially with the current tendency to use digital interconnections instead of the analogue ones that were the norm when these standards were set.

I'm not guaranteeing that I will be able to work out what the problem is.... but there may be something obvious we can identify.......

dave

[Steve Sykes]

Hi Dave,

I think it is to do with the way my bluray player upscales.

I have a Sony Bravia LCD TV (KDL-37W5500) and I'm playing DVDs through my Sony Bluray player BDP-S760 connected with a HDMI lead.

I don't see the black boarder when played on the Samsung LCD player played on a Panasonic dvd player with HDMI connections.

My bluray player won many awards in 2010 so I will be disappointed if it is upscaling to the wrong aspect ratio. The menu settings appear to be correct and commericial DVDs fill the screen as expected.

Anymore information or advice gratefully appreciated!

[Dave Jervis]

Interesting Steve,

Most SD camcorders recording to a digital format would record picture right to the edges of the 720x576, but the content intended to be seen would be in the central 702 pixels. A DVD of this material would not show black lines at the side however you display it.

Commercial DVD's would probably do something similar. If you think about cinema release film that has been transferred to video, there is probably a bit of 'extra' picture available at the side that would normally end up being projected onto the black mask at the edge of the cinema screen, and this might also be included on the edge of a DVD transfer that fills the whole 720 width of the frame. Film to DVD transfers may be a little less precise anyway as the original aspect ratios vary and there is scope for framing adjustments to be made at the transfer stage....

.....what I'm trying to say is that lots of DVDs have will picture across all 720 pixels. The problem really only crops up when you precisely put a 16x9 picture into the central 702 pixels. You might get it right, but it does sound as if you've found a piece of hardware that gets it wrong.

I will look at some info. relating to the gear you are using and see if I can come up with a simple test.

dave

[Steve Sykes]

Thanks Dave,

I understand that commercial transfers have probably cropped and scaled footage down to a 16:9 frame so there won't be black bars there. Thank you for looking into this for me.