Help! Cs3 export to tape freezing nightmare at DVinfo.net

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 05:38 PM

Hello and please help,

I am exporting HDV to tape from CS3 PP to a Sony device (GV-HD700/1) with Sony device control.
At an unregular time the export first freezes momentarily (frame and timecode freezes together for a second). After that first freezing, it continues to freeze at REGULAR intervals of 4min 2secs until completion of export.Playing back the tape on that device and an HDV camera shows up the freezing - both image and timecode freezes.

I have tried exporting DV and it appears to be free of this problem (and seems to discount a background process of XP conflicting. I have tried disabling background processes but still freezing occurs in HDV export).

I need to export in HDV not DV. I am currently exporting to an mpeg4 via Adobe Media Encoder with the hope of importing into non-Premier software to try an export to tape. Will also try to disable Sony device control and see if that helps.

I have 55 hours to export to tape (with more coming) and would prefer to stay in Premier and export from the timeline to save stuffing about.

Has anyone found a solution (have searched the net and found similar problems, but no solution)???

Adam Gold · January 13th, 2011, 05:58 PM

Couple of thoughts: This sort of regular freezing points to a CPU or HDD problem. Tell us about each.

Also, HDV export requires an m2t file (mpeg-2). Try generating that first from Premiere, then exporting that, if you are encoding and exporting simultaneously.

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 06:47 PM

Cheers Adam,

Interesting thoughts. HP xw8200, 2x 3.2GHz Xeons, Of the discs concerned - Western Digital Hard disc internal (Enterprise SATA 1.5) and external via estata WD MyBook studio edition II 2TB in a 2 mirrored 1TB config).

As export to tape in DV works without freezing - I'm suspecting the transcoding to HDV which occurs in the export to tape process may be the culprit. Going out via Firewire also - something to do with firewire?

Not sure how to generate the m2t, although I think it does that when it exports to Encore.

Will persist with trials as mentioned & report back.

Adam Gold · January 13th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Yes, your hardware sounds like it should be able to handle this, and I agree it sounds like it's in the transcoding. FW was specifically designed to do exactly this so unless it's a bad cable or port I doubt it's the culprit with regular glitches like that.

I thought CS3 used to have an m2t option under Export Movie or something like that, but it's been a while since I used either CS3 or tape. I do remember that I used Export to Tape without a problem. I seem to remember making the m2t first, and then when you pick Export to Tape it asks if you want to use that file. The m2t may have been an option from Cineform at the time, although they no longer support this. I thought Premiere natively offered an m2t export option, but I could be wrong about this.

Edit: Apparently it must be done in an all-at-once operation, as CS3 Help says you cannot export to HDV format. It must have been the old Aspect HD from Cineform that did this.

Don't know if this is useful. Probably not:

http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Prem...aef7-7ca1.html

Found a workaround about how to do this over on the Adobe Forums:

http://kb2.adobe.com/community/publi...sid_83992.html

And here's another brilliant workaround from Harm, and while this is for CS5 (as is the tip above) it just might work in CS3 as well. Note that you have to first select your export format as mpeg2:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/2974320

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 09:08 PM

Adam, can you just clarify how I go about testing the m2t file once I create it.

Am I trying to export it to tape? Not sure of the process ie import into a timeline and try and export it to tape?

Adam Gold · January 13th, 2011, 09:58 PM

I don't want to send you down the wrong path here so I am trying to remember the proper procedure. After you create the file it should just play fine in any media player, so you should be able to check whether the file itself is okay. Windows Media Player plays m2t files just fine; I check my imported m2t files with it daily.

Then, if I recall correctly, when you choose Export to Tape, I think it will ask if you want to use that file. I assume the file should be in the same directory as your project. This is how I remember it working when I did it, but it was a few years ago. It's possible you might have to import it into your project, put it on a timeline and then choose export to tape, but I don't recall having to do this, and I would hope that it wouldn't re-encode if you did.

Apologies if it does not, in fact, work that way. I've really been hoping someone else will jump in with advice in the interim.

Do you have another HDV device, like a camcorder, you could try exporting to? I noticed (as you obviously did as well) that others have mentioned problems with the HD700 too. I no longer have CS3 or I would try a test with my HD700 for you.

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 11:32 PM

It's been a long day....

Thanks Adam for your suggestions, I'll be patient to see if any other people have suggestions too.

Created the m2t file, can only export it to tape when placed in a timeline. Unfortunately it begins to transcode again. So I'm downloading a trial version of Vegas HD in order to try to import the m2t and see if I can print to tape.

By the way the m2t file looked like audio sync is slightly drifting - enough to notice - is this usual or just the extra compression?

Any chance you can check your HD700 with any version of Premier (have seen those with pp4 with similar issue - and I have a version of pp2 that has the same problem) to see if you have issues?

Many thanks

Matthew Cairns · January 14th, 2011, 02:50 AM

Ok,

I tried disabling device control - couldn't do it. Changed brand from Sony to generic - kept device control but freezing still happened.

Downloaded a trial Vegas Movie Studio HD. Imported the m2t file and printed to tape. Vegas rendered the file and transferred successfully to tape (am currently previewing the whole tape to make sure.

As I have had capture issues with CS3 and now transfer issues it is quite suprising. I like the suite of Adobe but these basic problems on capture and transfer are unbelievable to my workflow.

It looks like Vegas will be my transfer software and HDV split (once I can get it to work) as my capture.
Will investigate Vegas as full time NLE.

Adam Gold · January 14th, 2011, 12:54 PM

Glad you got it worked out; too bad about Premiere.

I may just try a tape export in the next few days to see how CS5 does with my gear.

Edit: So this will likely be of no use to anyone, but I just did an Export to Tape using both an M15 and an HD700, and both worked perfectly. I scrolled through the final tape output frame by frame and it didn't freeze or drop so much as a field. But this is with CS5 and our hardware undoubtedly varies, so perhaps not applicable or even helpful data.

Matthew Cairns · January 14th, 2011, 04:43 PM

I had to export around 30 mins minimum to be sure of observing the error. It took 19 minutes before the first freezing occured on one export. Another export began around 2 min. So make sure you had enought length of export to confirm no errors.

Thanks for the help again Adam.

Adam Gold · January 14th, 2011, 04:53 PM

Good point. I only did ten minutes of bars and burned-in timecode. Not sure I could take staring at it for much longer.

Do you lose audio as well?

That you got it to work in Vegas leads me to think that Premiere, being more resource intensive, is just somehow overwhelming your system. Are you sure you are not connected to the Internet when this happens, have no virus checkers, no other processes running in BG, no indexing or screen savers or sleep settings or anything like that running? If using Win7, is system optimized for "Performance"?

When you made the m2t from Premiere, did you confirm that the file itself is okay by playing it back either on the timeline or through another player?

Matthew Cairns · January 17th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Oh dear, just when I thought it was safe to go back into the water....

Watching a transfer and noticed more freezing via Vegas (irregular start but regular after the first).
at around 4min 2 sec).

Thought that maybe the problem is with files being on external MyBook Studio II via esata.

Transferred files to internal drive. Transferred while watching timecode (24min) saw no freezing but on playback of tape noticed 2 freezes.

Spent too much time on this and deciding to hire another camera/deck and do a straight transfer bypassing the computer and pause to remove unwanted footage from the master tape.

Can't believe something so simple could become such a nightmare.

I think you're right Adam, must be something in OS/hardware - but I don't have time to spend anymore.

January 13th, 2011, 05:38 PM	#1
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Help! Cs3 export to tape freezing nightmare Hello and please help, I am exporting HDV to tape from CS3 PP to a Sony device (GV-HD700/1) with Sony device control. At an unregular time the export first freezes momentarily (frame and timecode freezes together for a second). After that first freezing, it continues to freeze at REGULAR intervals of 4min 2secs until completion of export.Playing back the tape on that device and an HDV camera shows up the freezing - both image and timecode freezes. I have tried exporting DV and it appears to be free of this problem (and seems to discount a background process of XP conflicting. I have tried disabling background processes but still freezing occurs in HDV export). I need to export in HDV not DV. I am currently exporting to an mpeg4 via Adobe Media Encoder with the hope of importing into non-Premier software to try an export to tape. Will also try to disable Sony device control and see if that helps. I have 55 hours to export to tape (with more coming) and would prefer to stay in Premier and export from the timeline to save stuffing about. Has anyone found a solution (have searched the net and found similar problems, but no solution)???

January 13th, 2011, 05:58 PM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Couple of thoughts: This sort of regular freezing points to a CPU or HDD problem. Tell us about each. Also, HDV export requires an m2t file (mpeg-2). Try generating that first from Premiere, then exporting that, if you are encoding and exporting simultaneously. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 13th, 2011, 07:37 PM	#4
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Yes, your hardware sounds like it should be able to handle this, and I agree it sounds like it's in the transcoding. FW was specifically designed to do exactly this so unless it's a bad cable or port I doubt it's the culprit with regular glitches like that. I thought CS3 used to have an m2t option under Export Movie or something like that, but it's been a while since I used either CS3 or tape. I do remember that I used Export to Tape without a problem. I seem to remember making the m2t first, and then when you pick Export to Tape it asks if you want to use that file. The m2t may have been an option from Cineform at the time, although they no longer support this. I thought Premiere natively offered an m2t export option, but I could be wrong about this. Edit: Apparently it must be done in an all-at-once operation, as CS3 Help says you cannot export to HDV format. It must have been the old Aspect HD from Cineform that did this. Don't know if this is useful. Probably not: http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Prem...aef7-7ca1.html Found a workaround about how to do this over on the Adobe Forums: http://kb2.adobe.com/community/publi...sid_83992.html And here's another brilliant workaround from Harm, and while this is for CS5 (as is the tip above) it just might work in CS3 as well. Note that you have to first select your export format as mpeg2: http://forums.adobe.com/message/2974320 __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 13th, 2011, 09:58 PM	#6
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I don't want to send you down the wrong path here so I am trying to remember the proper procedure. After you create the file it should just play fine in any media player, so you should be able to check whether the file itself is okay. Windows Media Player plays m2t files just fine; I check my imported m2t files with it daily. Then, if I recall correctly, when you choose Export to Tape, I think it will ask if you want to use that file. I assume the file should be in the same directory as your project. This is how I remember it working when I did it, but it was a few years ago. It's possible you might have to import it into your project, put it on a timeline and then choose export to tape, but I don't recall having to do this, and I would hope that it wouldn't re-encode if you did. Apologies if it does not, in fact, work that way. I've really been hoping someone else will jump in with advice in the interim. Do you have another HDV device, like a camcorder, you could try exporting to? I noticed (as you obviously did as well) that others have mentioned problems with the HD700 too. I no longer have CS3 or I would try a test with my HD700 for you. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 14th, 2011, 12:54 PM	#9
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Glad you got it worked out; too bad about Premiere. I may just try a tape export in the next few days to see how CS5 does with my gear. Edit: So this will likely be of no use to anyone, but I just did an Export to Tape using both an M15 and an HD700, and both worked perfectly. I scrolled through the final tape output frame by frame and it didn't freeze or drop so much as a field. But this is with CS5 and our hardware undoubtedly varies, so perhaps not applicable or even helpful data. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error." Last edited by Adam Gold; January 14th, 2011 at 03:47 PM.

January 13th, 2011, 06:47 PM	#3
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Cheers Adam, Interesting thoughts. HP xw8200, 2x 3.2GHz Xeons, Of the discs concerned - Western Digital Hard disc internal (Enterprise SATA 1.5) and external via estata WD MyBook studio edition II 2TB in a 2 mirrored 1TB config). As export to tape in DV works without freezing - I'm suspecting the transcoding to HDV which occurs in the export to tape process may be the culprit. Going out via Firewire also - something to do with firewire? Not sure how to generate the m2t, although I think it does that when it exports to Encore. Will persist with trials as mentioned & report back.

January 13th, 2011, 09:08 PM	#5
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Adam, can you just clarify how I go about testing the m2t file once I create it. Am I trying to export it to tape? Not sure of the process ie import into a timeline and try and export it to tape?

January 13th, 2011, 11:32 PM	#7
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	It's been a long day.... Thanks Adam for your suggestions, I'll be patient to see if any other people have suggestions too. Created the m2t file, can only export it to tape when placed in a timeline. Unfortunately it begins to transcode again. So I'm downloading a trial version of Vegas HD in order to try to import the m2t and see if I can print to tape. By the way the m2t file looked like audio sync is slightly drifting - enough to notice - is this usual or just the extra compression? Any chance you can check your HD700 with any version of Premier (have seen those with pp4 with similar issue - and I have a version of pp2 that has the same problem) to see if you have issues? Many thanks

January 14th, 2011, 02:50 AM	#8
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Ok, I tried disabling device control - couldn't do it. Changed brand from Sony to generic - kept device control but freezing still happened. Downloaded a trial Vegas Movie Studio HD. Imported the m2t file and printed to tape. Vegas rendered the file and transferred successfully to tape (am currently previewing the whole tape to make sure. As I have had capture issues with CS3 and now transfer issues it is quite suprising. I like the suite of Adobe but these basic problems on capture and transfer are unbelievable to my workflow. It looks like Vegas will be my transfer software and HDV split (once I can get it to work) as my capture. Will investigate Vegas as full time NLE.

January 14th, 2011, 04:43 PM	#10
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	I had to export around 30 mins minimum to be sure of observing the error. It took 19 minutes before the first freezing occured on one export. Another export began around 2 min. So make sure you had enought length of export to confirm no errors. Thanks for the help again Adam.

January 14th, 2011, 04:53 PM	#11
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Good point. I only did ten minutes of bars and burned-in timecode. Not sure I could take staring at it for much longer. Do you lose audio as well? That you got it to work in Vegas leads me to think that Premiere, being more resource intensive, is just somehow overwhelming your system. Are you sure you are not connected to the Internet when this happens, have no virus checkers, no other processes running in BG, no indexing or screen savers or sleep settings or anything like that running? If using Win7, is system optimized for "Performance"? When you made the m2t from Premiere, did you confirm that the file itself is okay by playing it back either on the timeline or through another player? __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

January 17th, 2011, 03:13 PM	#12
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Oh dear, just when I thought it was safe to go back into the water.... Watching a transfer and noticed more freezing via Vegas (irregular start but regular after the first). at around 4min 2 sec). Thought that maybe the problem is with files being on external MyBook Studio II via esata. Transferred files to internal drive. Transferred while watching timecode (24min) saw no freezing but on playback of tape noticed 2 freezes. Spent too much time on this and deciding to hire another camera/deck and do a straight transfer bypassing the computer and pause to remove unwanted footage from the master tape. Can't believe something so simple could become such a nightmare. I think you're right Adam, must be something in OS/hardware - but I don't have time to spend anymore.