Switching to CS5 from FCP...

[Peter Chung]

I'm in the middle of switching over from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro by editing a project in Premiere :)

I love that there is no transcoding involved and that I can just drop the footage in the timeline. Saves a ton of hard drive space and less time cleaning out my hard drives to make room for projects!

Anyways, as I edit with Premiere, I have noticed some differences from Final Cut Pro and was wondering if there were any preferences or ways of changing how some of these things work.

- When ripple editing a clip to trim off the front end of the clip to somewhere in the middle specified by the CTI, after making the edit, the CTI stays in the same spot. In FCP, the CTI would move to the beginning of the ripple edited clip. It would save the extra step of pressing page up to go the beginning of the clip if the CTI would just move automatically. This is not an issue when rippling the end of the clip since the CTI is where the clip would end after the ripple edit.

- When playing through the timeline and wanting to skip to another part of the timeline by clicking in the time bar, the playback stops. It would be convenient to keep playing until you tell it to stop playing explicily (by pressing 'k' or space bar).

- When moving a clip to another track, Premiere only moves the video OR audio portion of the clip that you click and drag. For example, if you click and drag the video portion of a clip from track V1 to V2, the video will move BUT the audio part of the same clip will stay in audio track A1. Either you have to move the clip from V1 to V2 and then A1 to A2 or you move your video clip from V1 to V2, then while still holding the left mouse button, hold down the shift key (this locks the video to stay on V2), then move the mouse cursor down (still while holding the left mouse button) to where the audio part of your clip should go in A2, then release the mouse button BEFORE you release the shift key. Yeah, it's much more complicated than it needs to be. If the video and audio tracks could move synchronously, that would save a lot of time.

- Is there a way to show through-edits? In FCP, when I split a clip, there are indication arrows that show that the frame before the razor cut and the frame after the razor cut are from the same clip. It's a missed "feature."

- When I drag a clip from the timeline into a bin, the clip shows up but the in and out points are removed. Am I doing something wrong or is there a way to keep the in and out points when moving a clip from the timeline to a bin?

I'm not hating on Premiere and am liking the benefits and features or Premiere like being able to make J and L edits easily without having to unlink, edit, and relink clips, native editing, thumbnails in the video track. These are mostly just little quirks and user interface preferences that I miss from FCP.

Thanks for any tips or advice you have.

[Eric Lagerlof]

A few tips: For the trimming bit, try holding the command/cntrl key before/while trimming instead of using the razor tools. The cursor changes and the ripple and the cti will in essence 'move' together for your ripple edit.

Once the clip is on the timeline, moving audio and video from track to track is a few-steps process. But if you can see the filmstrip and speaker icons in the preview monitor window, (the video and audio icons, center-right just below the video itself), put the cursor over each icon and you can seperately drag the audio and video to any tracks you want.

As to the last bit, command/cntrl click as you drag the trimmed clip from the timeline into the project window and you'll get a title requestor for the 'new' subclip with the trimmed duration.

[Tim Kolb]

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

- When ripple editing a clip to trim off the front end of the clip to somewhere in the middle specified by the CTI, after making the edit, the CTI stays in the same spot. In FCP, the CTI would move to the beginning of the ripple edited clip. It would save the extra step of pressing page up to go the beginning of the clip if the CTI would just move automatically. This is not an issue when rippling the end of the clip since the CTI is where the clip would end after the ripple edit.

This feature has been requested and debated over the last three versions. I find that most of the time I'd prefer that it would work as you describe, but there are others who have legitimate reasons to want it to work the way that it does currently. (Eric's post describes the way I usually ripple-trim.)

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

- When playing through the timeline and wanting to skip to another part of the timeline by clicking in the time bar, the playback stops. It would be convenient to keep playing until you tell it to stop playing explicily (by pressing 'k' or space bar).

Not transcoding means more playback buffering. I reality there is no "realtime preview" in any NLE, there is only "rendering frames faster than they're required for playback". Clicking into some other area of the timeline, particularly with many of the most popular long GOP formats (XDcam, XDcam 422, XDcamEX, AVCCAM, DSLR, etc) requires a new buffer, and while Premiere Pro works very fast at this, I don't know if it's possible to do continuously. I'm also not sure this would be a feature that would be universally wished for as anyone who has established a workflow without it probably doesn't spend a lot of time lamenting the extra space bar keystroke after the repositioning of the CTI...or maybe even realize that they're doing it.

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

- When moving a clip to another track, Premiere only moves the video OR audio portion of the clip that you click and drag. For example, if you click and drag the video portion of a clip from track V1 to V2, the video will move BUT the audio part of the same clip will stay in audio track A1. Either you have to move the clip from V1 to V2 and then A1 to A2 or you move your video clip from V1 to V2, then while still holding the left mouse button, hold down the shift key (this locks the video to stay on V2), then move the mouse cursor down (still while holding the left mouse button) to where the audio part of your clip should go in A2, then release the mouse button BEFORE you release the shift key. Yeah, it's much more complicated than it needs to be. If the video and audio tracks could move synchronously, that would save a lot of time.

It may not save everyone "a lot of time"...

Those of us who are PPro users might find chaining the two clip components together to be quite confining. I do many projects where not every clip has audio so often I need to relocate a video clip to integrate a new video shot, but I have no need of moving my audio...so why do that? I usually will label my audio tracks for the type of content I have (narration, music bed, location X, location Y, etc) and I will handle many of my audio processes on those specific tracks...maybe location X had some hum in the background that I can handle once as a track effect and simply drop all the location X audio on the track. Moving the video and by extension being required to move my audio would be a tremendous step backwards.

I think you have to allow that PPro has several areas beyond Mercury where it is really more advanced than FCP and the whole idea that it doesn't work like FCP is a "pro" instead of a "con".

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

- Is there a way to show through-edits? In FCP, when I split a clip, there are indication arrows that show that the frame before the razor cut and the frame after the razor cut are from the same clip. It's a missed "feature."

I can't picture the indicator you're referencing (it's been a while since I've been in FCP). I've always noted that the clip before and after the cut point have the same name in PPro, and that usually has been enough...

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

- When I drag a clip from the timeline into a bin, the clip shows up but the in and out points are removed. Am I doing something wrong or is there a way to keep the in and out points when moving a clip from the timeline to a bin?

You'll want to look up "create a subclip".

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

I'm not hating on Premiere and am liking the benefits and features or Premiere like being able to make J and L edits easily without having to unlink, edit, and relink clips, native editing, thumbnails in the video track. These are mostly just little quirks and user interface preferences that I miss from FCP.

Yes, with the number of FCP editors now exploring PPro CS5, there are a lot of "FCP does this, so why doesn't PPro?" sorts of questions. I'm currently doing a class on another website and the FCP users who are seeing what PPro is actually designed to do are surprised and most have stopped asking why it doesn't work like FCP.

It's not FCP. If it becomes FCP, the few areas that it may ease some workflows would be offset by some tremendous functionality losses.

[Peter Chung]

Thanks, Eric and Tim.

Originally Posted by Eric Lagerlof

A few tips: For the trimming bit, try holding the command/cntrl key before/while trimming instead of using the razor tools. The cursor changes and the ripple and the cti will in essence 'move' together for your ripple edit.

I am actually ripple editing with the Select Tool (V) and holding the command key. It saves a few key strokes switching to ripple tool and then back to the select tool. I like it much better than FCP :)

It's not a problem if the CTI is at the beginning of the clip and then you ripple edit to a point in the middle of the clip because the CTI is at the beginning of the clip. They way I usually trim clips is to set the CTI at the point I want to trim to and then ripple or trim the edge so that it snaps to the CTI. Because the CTI doesn't move and stays at it's current time and doesn't move to the beginning of the gap that was created, when you trim the beginning of a clip to the middle of the clip (where the CTI is also at), the CTI is then at a point from the new beginning of the clip that is equal to the amount that you trimmed. If you ripple off more than half the clip, the CTI will be in the middle of the next clip so you have to press "page up" more times to get to the beginning of the clip you just ripple edited.

It's definitely not a killer but I am speaking from an efficiency point of view. Just move the CTI back equal to the amount that was just trimmed off in the ripple edit. From a programming point of view, it should be fairly easy since the amount trimmed off would be stored in a variable to do the actual trimming and offset the CTI's current time by the same amount.

Originally Posted by Eric Lagerlof

As to the last bit, command/cntrl click as you drag the trimmed clip from the timeline into the project window and you'll get a title requestor for the 'new' subclip with the trimmed duration.

I am aware of subclips but what I would like to do is different. For one, you can only Command drag one clip at a time so that makes it a tedious process. If you could select a group of clips, command drag them to a bin, and drop them, it would be better. The other thing is that I would like to keep it as the original clip so that I can work with handles, if need be, instead of having to trim the clips to include handles so that they are included in the subclip. If I were to do that, I would have to then go in and set in and out points (again) for each subclip to use the parts of the footage that I really want.

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

This feature has been requested and debated over the last three versions. I find that most of the time I'd prefer that it would work as you describe, but there are others who have legitimate reasons to want it to work the way that it does currently. (Eric's post describes the way I usually ripple-trim.)

I guess that's another vote for me to offset the CTI the amount that was ripple-trimmed :)

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

Not transcoding means more playback buffering. I reality there is no "realtime preview" in any NLE, there is only "rendering frames faster than they're required for playback". Clicking into some other area of the timeline, particularly with many of the most popular long GOP formats (XDcam, XDcam 422, XDcamEX, AVCCAM, DSLR, etc) requires a new buffer, and while Premiere Pro works very fast at this, I don't know if it's possible to do continuously. I'm also not sure this would be a feature that would be universally wished for as anyone who has established a workflow without it probably doesn't spend a lot of time lamenting the extra space bar keystroke after the repositioning of the CTI...or maybe even realize that they're doing it.

Thanks for explaining one possibility. Again, it's not a deal breaker for me, but sometimes because of the way I'm used to things with FCP, I sit there for a second wondering why the video stopped playing and realize that Premiere just does that... LOL

For example, sometimes, I'm reviewing an edit and like to go back to the beginning of a clip and just replay from there. In FCP, you could play and just press the up arrow to go to the previous edit and it would just play normally from the beginning of the edit. With Premiere, I'd have to hit page up and then L or space. It shaves off a few milliseconds or even microseconds maybe but when you're editing, it makes a difference and makes it less tedious.

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

Those of us who are PPro users might find chaining the two clip components together to be quite confining. I do many projects where not every clip has audio so often I need to relocate a video clip to integrate a new video shot, but I have no need of moving my audio...so why do that? I usually will label my audio tracks for the type of content I have (narration, music bed, location X, location Y, etc) and I will handle many of my audio processes on those specific tracks...maybe location X had some hum in the background that I can handle once as a track effect and simply drop all the location X audio on the track. Moving the video and by extension being required to move my audio would be a tremendous step backwards.

Again, good point, Tim. I think I do like your approach to working with audio instead of linking it by track. You're right in that usually you only use one track for dialog, one track for music, etc, so maybe Premiere IS better for not moving the tracks synchronously.

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

I think you have to allow that PPro has several areas beyond Mercury where it is really more advanced than FCP and the whole idea that it doesn't work like FCP is a "pro" instead of a "con".

I am NLE agnostic in that I just want to use whichever NLE makes things more efficient, faster, and easier. I don't see it as pro and con, necessarily, just different, and each has it's own adjustments and quirks that I need to be aware of and work with. In the big picture of things, I think Premiere is better, especially with the Mercury playback (though I don't have a CUDA card right now). There are some things that I do prefer, but they are mainly user interface and design preferences. It would be cool if there was a checkbox or something that you could change in the preferences to tweak to your liking.

_ Move CTI to beginning of gap with ripple edits
_ Playback until explicit stop

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

I can't picture the indicator you're referencing (it's been a while since I've been in FCP). I've always noted that the clip before and after the cut point have the same name in PPro, and that usually has been enough...

There are little red arrows in FCP if you were to razor a clip in the middle. One scenario where this is useful is if you razor a clip to do a speed change. Sometimes, after a speed change, the last frame in the previous clip and the first frame of the next clip are not sequential so you will see a jump in the footage. The through-edit indicator lets you know that the clip will play through the edit without jumping.

At the very least, is there a way in Premiere to join a through edit? Like if you razor a clip and want to make the two clips back to one, can you join them back together (besides hitting undo)?

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

Yes, with the number of FCP editors now exploring PPro CS5, there are a lot of "FCP does this, so why doesn't PPro?" sorts of questions. I'm currently doing a class on another website and the FCP users who are seeing what PPro is actually designed to do are surprised and most have stopped asking why it doesn't work like FCP.

It's not FCP. If it becomes FCP, the few areas that it may ease some workflows would be offset by some tremendous functionality losses.

Bottom line: if there is a better way, I want to learn it! I'm not a Mac head or a FCP evangelist... there are more important things in life to stand up for! I totally understand that Premiere is different from FCP and would not be wise to just try to replicate how FCP functions. If there is a better reason for why Premiere does things the way it does, I would be grateful to learn why. Some things are functionally better. Other things are subjective preferences... for these things, it would be nice to be able to customize and adjust.

Thanks again!

[Peter Chung]

Here's one thing that's been bothering me all day:

When editing a multiclip sequence, when I stop playback, the angle automatically makes a cut and switches to the angle that the multicam monitor was on before I hit play. I'm not sure why it does this at all and has been frustrating for me. Is there a way to make the angle just stay on the last selected angle?

Besides this "function," I am very much liking the multicam features over FCP. Particularly that I can have split clips in the 4 different tracks and that they can be mixed media, too! Sweet! Before, if I had split clips or a portion where the camera stops recording and starts recording later, I'd have to export that one camera angle so that it was one continuous clip before multicam editing.

[Steve Yager]

What's bothering me as a FCP switcher, is my next and previous edit commands aren't working in the timeline. They work fine in the viewer but after I trim something or delete a clip, etc, and hit up or down (yes, I've changed the keyboard commands to FCP), it doesn't do anything. The delete key also isn't working as a ripple delete. Just to check, I changed all the shortcuts back to Premiere and those aren't working either. They only work in the viewer and not the timeline. Ideas?

[Adam Gold]

As noted in your other thread, make sure the timeline window is active and the correct track is targeted.