Premiere Pro (erroneous?) Pixel Depth Reporting at DVinfo.net

Tara Graves · August 8th, 2010, 11:24 AM

Does anyone know why ppcs5 seems to always report a pixel depth of 32 bits?

For example, I have a clip in avc-intra100 which is a10 bit codec, yet the properties for the clip reports a pixel depth of 32. Doesn't 32 imply 8 bits per channel?.

If I import a 16 bit psd still, or a numbered 16 bit psd sequence, the clip properties still reports 32 pixel depth.

And dpxs? 32 bit pixel depth!

It seems that ppcs5 reports EVERYTHING at 32 bits. Is this a reporting bug, or is there something that I am missing?

And while I'm at it, why does ppcs5 choke when I try to import 16 bit tiffs which the documentation clearly states that it can?

Tim Kolb · August 8th, 2010, 04:31 PM

Do you have maximum bit depth checked?

PPro works in 32 bit float...

Tara Graves · August 8th, 2010, 05:42 PM

Hi. My understanding is that ppcs5 works in 32bit float for effects if you are careful to stick to 32bit effects. But that is not what I am asking...

To rephrase, if I have a project bin full of assets, then how can I go through those assets to verify the pixel depths? I'm currently trying that by selecting a clip and then viewing "properties". But even known assets which vary from 8 bits per channel to 16 bits per channel are all reporting a pixel depth of 32. And I would like to know why...

Ann Bens · August 8th, 2010, 07:16 PM

The Video Road: Understanding Color Processing: 8-bit, 10-bit, 32-bit, and more

Tim Kolb · August 8th, 2010, 08:15 PM

She's not asking about effects...sorry, earlier I was trying to type and dash...

(sigh) I do know that there is unfortunately a late discovered bug that they're working on with AVC-Intra...it loads as 8 bpc...they know about it...as far as I know they're working on it.

That said, I'm not sure why it's happening...but i can verify that I have it here...10 bit CineForm files and 16 bit Photoshop files all come up as 32. I assumed it meant 32 bit float because Premiere doesn't really have a 10 bit or 16 bit mode...it goes right from 8 to 32 bit float when the max bit depth is checked...but I suspect it means (3) 8 bit channels plus alpha from what I see here...

I'll be pinging some Adobe folks tonight on this...like you, I'd like to know if the reading is off, or is it the importer...

I just LOVE new software...

Tara Graves · August 9th, 2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Kolb

(sigh) I do know that there is unfortunately a late discovered bug that they're working on with AVC-Intra...it loads as 8 bpc...they know about it...as far as I know they're working on it.

I've been using avc-intra100 for its 10bit capability... Oh well, it's still just an 8bit world. Glad to hear that adobe knows about this and that they are working on it. When you ping your contacts you might also mention that it appears that ppcs5 cannot import a 16bit tiff. The documentation says that it can, but I cannot figure out how to do it.

My workflow involves avc-intra100 files, dslr files, and tiff numbered stills. I'm working around the tiff limitation by converting all those 16bit tiffs to 16bit psds. But now I'm a little bit worried since I cannot verify any pixel depths after importing my media. I have purchased Premiere (in fact the premium bundle) on its promise that it can function at pixel depths greater than 8bpc.

Tim Kolb · August 9th, 2010, 01:27 PM

No...it's not an 8 bit world... Adobe just has a few bugs like most other software, though I'll admit that this one is rather huge...

Premiere Pro's capability to work in 32 bit float is still important and it is a part of my workflow certainly...

It appears the read in the properties panel is UI only...not actually indicating a failed import. I seem to be fine with my 10 bit CineForm files and 16 bit DPX files...and I just tried a layered 16 bit Tif and a flattened 16 bit Tif...they all come in for me.

Maybe you could furnish some details about what the problem manifests itself as and get me a file to try somehow?

Steve Kalle · August 9th, 2010, 03:02 PM

I just tried a 16 bit Tiff and it did NOT import for me either. The file is from here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/view-vid...ml#post1557264
In the last post, you can download it.

Tim Kolb · August 9th, 2010, 04:53 PM

That 16 bit TIF is a grayscale file...it is a little wonky, but you do need to have 'max bit depth' and also checked 'max render quality' and have a timeline that is uncompressed 10 bit.

It did load for me, but PPro didn't know what exactly to do with it.

16 bit TIFs I export from Photoshop all work without an issue...

Tim Kolb · August 9th, 2010, 06:50 PM

Also 16 bps DPX file sequences that I render out from AE seem to load without issue....

Tim Kolb · August 10th, 2010, 03:53 PM

OK...

Apparently I can load the 16 bit TIfs because I have a kona card and that software is likley handling it...because Adobe says PPro only loads 8 bit TIFs.

I looked at the software documentation and it does have a heading where they say they can load 8 and 16 bit image files and then they have a list of filetypes below... It's not very clear, certainly.

I've encouraged them to look over that page and "consider adding some clarification"...or words to that general effect.

Bottom line: 16 bit PSDs or DPX...8 bit TIFs if you don't have third party software/hardware that has the ability to deal with 16 bit TIF files.

Not good news...I don't enjoy delivering it. Sorry about that.

Tara Graves · August 10th, 2010, 06:29 PM

Thanks for clearing that up with regards to 16bit tiffs. It's not at all a problem for me to use psds. I was just wondering if there was something wrong with my setup and I spent some hours struggling with the tiffs.

By the way, when I tried an 8bit grayscale tif import, the properties repoted correctly with a pixel depth of 8. Everything else in my trials reports a pixel depth of 32.

With regards to the avc-intra importing-at-8bpc problem, do you have any knowledge as to when that might be corrected?

Thanks again for your kind posts.

Tim Kolb · August 10th, 2010, 09:06 PM

I know the AVC Intra thing is front-burner as it sounds like they were a little surprised when they found out (some time ago...they didn't learn this from us).

Apparently the AVC Intra export in 10 bit is good...I think that's where they were surprised as it's two sides of the same process...so they're tracking it. It will likely be two letters that strayed into one line of code somewhere...I think it would frustrate me to no end to have those guys' jobs.

There are updates on Adobe software that come out periodically but they don't publish what's in those until they're released.

Are you shooting P2? The media is a direct import from disk?

Tara Graves · August 11th, 2010, 06:36 PM

Nope, not shooting p2. Actually I have been using AVC-Intra as an intermediate. My understanding is that it offers 10bit accuracy with 4:2:2 sampling. My early impression is that it is quite a capable codec, and it runs without issues on my modest i5 pc. Yet I am a relative newbee to Premiere and CS5 and codecs in general, so my opinions and practices may be flawed...

Tim Kolb · August 11th, 2010, 08:02 PM

Oh...I don't see any flaws in your thinking...

How do you ingest the footage then? What format are you shooting?

I'm curious about your workflow needs...maybe there's an alternative for you somehow in the short term.

August 8th, 2010, 11:24 AM	#1
Tara Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 25	Premiere Pro (erroneous?) Pixel Depth Reporting Does anyone know why ppcs5 seems to always report a pixel depth of 32 bits? For example, I have a clip in avc-intra100 which is a10 bit codec, yet the properties for the clip reports a pixel depth of 32. Doesn't 32 imply 8 bits per channel?. If I import a 16 bit psd still, or a numbered 16 bit psd sequence, the clip properties still reports 32 pixel depth. And dpxs? 32 bit pixel depth! It seems that ppcs5 reports EVERYTHING at 32 bits. Is this a reporting bug, or is there something that I am missing? And while I'm at it, why does ppcs5 choke when I try to import 16 bit tiffs which the documentation clearly states that it can?

August 8th, 2010, 04:31 PM	#2
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Do you have maximum bit depth checked? PPro works in 32 bit float... __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 8th, 2010, 08:15 PM	#5
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	She's not asking about effects...sorry, earlier I was trying to type and dash... (sigh) I do know that there is unfortunately a late discovered bug that they're working on with AVC-Intra...it loads as 8 bpc...they know about it...as far as I know they're working on it. That said, I'm not sure why it's happening...but i can verify that I have it here...10 bit CineForm files and 16 bit Photoshop files all come up as 32. I assumed it meant 32 bit float because Premiere doesn't really have a 10 bit or 16 bit mode...it goes right from 8 to 32 bit float when the max bit depth is checked...but I suspect it means (3) 8 bit channels plus alpha from what I see here... I'll be pinging some Adobe folks tonight on this...like you, I'd like to know if the reading is off, or is it the importer... I just LOVE new software... __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 9th, 2010, 01:27 PM	#7
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	No...it's not an 8 bit world... Adobe just has a few bugs like most other software, though I'll admit that this one is rather huge... Premiere Pro's capability to work in 32 bit float is still important and it is a part of my workflow certainly... It appears the read in the properties panel is UI only...not actually indicating a failed import. I seem to be fine with my 10 bit CineForm files and 16 bit DPX files...and I just tried a layered 16 bit Tif and a flattened 16 bit Tif...they all come in for me. Maybe you could furnish some details about what the problem manifests itself as and get me a file to try somehow? __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 9th, 2010, 04:53 PM	#9
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	That 16 bit TIF is a grayscale file...it is a little wonky, but you do need to have 'max bit depth' and also checked 'max render quality' and have a timeline that is uncompressed 10 bit. It did load for me, but PPro didn't know what exactly to do with it. 16 bit TIFs I export from Photoshop all work without an issue... __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 8th, 2010, 05:42 PM	#3
Tara Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 25	Hi. My understanding is that ppcs5 works in 32bit float for effects if you are careful to stick to 32bit effects. But that is not what I am asking... To rephrase, if I have a project bin full of assets, then how can I go through those assets to verify the pixel depths? I'm currently trying that by selecting a clip and then viewing "properties". But even known assets which vary from 8 bits per channel to 16 bits per channel are all reporting a pixel depth of 32. And I would like to know why...

August 8th, 2010, 07:16 PM	#4
Ann Bens Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 710	The Video Road: Understanding Color Processing: 8-bit, 10-bit, 32-bit, and more

August 9th, 2010, 03:02 PM	#8
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	I just tried a 16 bit Tiff and it did NOT import for me either. The file is from here: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/view-vid...ml#post1557264 In the last post, you can download it.

August 9th, 2010, 06:50 PM	#10
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Also 16 bps DPX file sequences that I render out from AE seem to load without issue.... __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 10th, 2010, 03:53 PM	#11
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	OK... Apparently I can load the 16 bit TIfs because I have a kona card and that software is likley handling it...because Adobe says PPro only loads 8 bit TIFs. I looked at the software documentation and it does have a heading where they say they can load 8 and 16 bit image files and then they have a list of filetypes below... It's not very clear, certainly. I've encouraged them to look over that page and "consider adding some clarification"...or words to that general effect. Bottom line: 16 bit PSDs or DPX...8 bit TIFs if you don't have third party software/hardware that has the ability to deal with 16 bit TIF files. Not good news...I don't enjoy delivering it. Sorry about that. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 10th, 2010, 06:29 PM	#12
Tara Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 25	Thanks for clearing that up with regards to 16bit tiffs. It's not at all a problem for me to use psds. I was just wondering if there was something wrong with my setup and I spent some hours struggling with the tiffs. By the way, when I tried an 8bit grayscale tif import, the properties repoted correctly with a pixel depth of 8. Everything else in my trials reports a pixel depth of 32. With regards to the avc-intra importing-at-8bpc problem, do you have any knowledge as to when that might be corrected? Thanks again for your kind posts.

August 10th, 2010, 09:06 PM	#13
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	I know the AVC Intra thing is front-burner as it sounds like they were a little surprised when they found out (some time ago...they didn't learn this from us). Apparently the AVC Intra export in 10 bit is good...I think that's where they were surprised as it's two sides of the same process...so they're tracking it. It will likely be two letters that strayed into one line of code somewhere...I think it would frustrate me to no end to have those guys' jobs. There are updates on Adobe software that come out periodically but they don't publish what's in those until they're released. Are you shooting P2? The media is a direct import from disk? __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

August 11th, 2010, 06:36 PM	#14
Tara Graves Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 25	Nope, not shooting p2. Actually I have been using AVC-Intra as an intermediate. My understanding is that it offers 10bit accuracy with 4:2:2 sampling. My early impression is that it is quite a capable codec, and it runs without issues on my modest i5 pc. Yet I am a relative newbee to Premiere and CS5 and codecs in general, so my opinions and practices may be flawed...

August 11th, 2010, 08:02 PM	#15
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Oh...I don't see any flaws in your thinking... How do you ingest the footage then? What format are you shooting? I'm curious about your workflow needs...maybe there's an alternative for you somehow in the short term. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions