What's up with HDV export to tape? at DVinfo.net

Bruce Pelley · July 10th, 2010, 10:08 PM

The reason why I mention it is that the contents of my master timeline almost entirely consists of .m2t files which have already been highly compressed by nature of their native format.

So, when the pop-up box HDV export to tape render & record appears and it says its' "transcoding", what is really going on here? Is it re-encoding, encoding, transcoding or otherewise adding further compression to the material being processed with any potential exposure to quality loss? I ask because the quality of the material on the master timeline is very high.

Secondly, it takes a very long time to "render"/"transcode" a 45 minute program.

The progress bar literally creeps n' crawls.

Does this means it's going to take hours to archive a HDV project to tape?

What sort of processing & completion timeframe should I be expecting here?

Exporting an SD project to tape comparatively speaking is a snap and apparently is not subject to transcoding.

Please enlighten!

Thank you.

Tim Kolb · July 10th, 2010, 11:03 PM

Ah yes...HDV.

It sounds like this is your first time editing then exporting in HDV...yes? I don't want to sound like I'm being sarcastic if you already know all this stuff...not my intent.

So...these GOPs. these groups of pictures. The basic idea is that the odds that an 'in' point on a given clip will fall on an 'I' frame (the first frame of the GOP, and the only frame that's complete) are slim. When that doesn't happen, that in point frame needs to become a new I frame of sorts so that all the information can be there...there's some transcoding there.

Also...when you line the whole timeline up and start numbering ITS GOPs in sequence (which has to be done to go back to HDV)...there are a lot of frames that end up in a different position in the new timeline than they had in the clip they originated from...like almost all of them. I frames may be P frames and P frames might now be B frames and B frames may become I frames. If a B frame...the lowliest fractional frame in the GOP, becomes an I frame from just happening to be positioned on the correct spot, there is some work to be done.

...and of course MPEG GOPs encode and decode out of order, so it has to buffer an entire GOP to do the job.

SD tape is typically all I frame formats...so they just play out. HDV needs to be a file when it goes out as it's almost more akin to a file transfer than a "videotape recording" even though there it is... It's a videotape.

So anyway...it can take some time.

Bruce Pelley · July 11th, 2010, 10:05 PM

CS PP3.2 cannot handle HDV export to tape.

3 times in a row it transcoded, then recorded about 24-25 minutes to tape and then stopped!

It was at random too as there was absolutely nothing special going on on the timeline. In that timeframe there was just a person speaking with only 1 videotrack and no fancy stuff.

Then at the spot it quit, it would not pick off where it stopped.
NO, but it went back to the beggining and started all over again which I already had.

I switched tapes, batteries, exported from diff versions of the same project, let the unit cool down as it was hot....nothing.

Can any of you think of anything to move forward so I can get the whole 45 minutes archived to tape?

Thanks

Alan Craven · July 12th, 2010, 02:39 AM

Make sure that your work area extends over the entire timeline.

Premiere has problems with some Sony devices when exporting to tape - the HDV Walkman GV-HD700 is one of these. What you describe matches my experiences with the HD700.

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 09:55 PM

Alan, I'm having some difficulties with HD700 also, not the same as you mentioned but exporting to hdv freezes regularly (in 4min 02sec regular intervals) from cs3.

Have you had this issue and any ideas on how to fix?

Chris Duczynski · January 13th, 2011, 11:33 PM

Exporting to tape has been a problem throughout all the Elements releases (I gave up at PE7) and it looks like it's a problem in Pro.

Matthew Cairns · January 13th, 2011, 11:51 PM

Seems silly but to save the project and get my timeline on HDV tape I'm now creating an m2t file in Premiere, importing into Vegas and trying to print to tape - requiring another render of the file.

My fingers are crossed Vegas stands up and the HD700 is stable.

July 10th, 2010, 10:08 PM	#1
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	What's up with HDV export to tape? The reason why I mention it is that the contents of my master timeline almost entirely consists of .m2t files which have already been highly compressed by nature of their native format. So, when the pop-up box HDV export to tape render & record appears and it says its' "transcoding", what is really going on here? Is it re-encoding, encoding, transcoding or otherewise adding further compression to the material being processed with any potential exposure to quality loss? I ask because the quality of the material on the master timeline is very high. Secondly, it takes a very long time to "render"/"transcode" a 45 minute program. The progress bar literally creeps n' crawls. Does this means it's going to take hours to archive a HDV project to tape? What sort of processing & completion timeframe should I be expecting here? Exporting an SD project to tape comparatively speaking is a snap and apparently is not subject to transcoding. Please enlighten! Thank you.

July 10th, 2010, 11:03 PM	#2
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Ah yes...HDV. It sounds like this is your first time editing then exporting in HDV...yes? I don't want to sound like I'm being sarcastic if you already know all this stuff...not my intent. So...these GOPs. these groups of pictures. The basic idea is that the odds that an 'in' point on a given clip will fall on an 'I' frame (the first frame of the GOP, and the only frame that's complete) are slim. When that doesn't happen, that in point frame needs to become a new I frame of sorts so that all the information can be there...there's some transcoding there. Also...when you line the whole timeline up and start numbering ITS GOPs in sequence (which has to be done to go back to HDV)...there are a lot of frames that end up in a different position in the new timeline than they had in the clip they originated from...like almost all of them. I frames may be P frames and P frames might now be B frames and B frames may become I frames. If a B frame...the lowliest fractional frame in the GOP, becomes an I frame from just happening to be positioned on the correct spot, there is some work to be done. ...and of course MPEG GOPs encode and decode out of order, so it has to buffer an entire GOP to do the job. SD tape is typically all I frame formats...so they just play out. HDV needs to be a file when it goes out as it's almost more akin to a file transfer than a "videotape recording" even though there it is... It's a videotape. So anyway...it can take some time. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

July 11th, 2010, 10:05 PM	#3
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	For the record CS PP3.2 cannot handle HDV export to tape. 3 times in a row it transcoded, then recorded about 24-25 minutes to tape and then stopped! It was at random too as there was absolutely nothing special going on on the timeline. In that timeframe there was just a person speaking with only 1 videotrack and no fancy stuff. Then at the spot it quit, it would not pick off where it stopped. NO, but it went back to the beggining and started all over again which I already had. I switched tapes, batteries, exported from diff versions of the same project, let the unit cool down as it was hot....nothing. Can any of you think of anything to move forward so I can get the whole 45 minutes archived to tape? Thanks

July 12th, 2010, 02:39 AM	#4
Alan Craven Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: York, England Posts: 518	Make sure that your work area extends over the entire timeline. Premiere has problems with some Sony devices when exporting to tape - the HDV Walkman GV-HD700 is one of these. What you describe matches my experiences with the HD700.

January 13th, 2011, 09:55 PM	#5
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Alan, I'm having some difficulties with HD700 also, not the same as you mentioned but exporting to hdv freezes regularly (in 4min 02sec regular intervals) from cs3. Have you had this issue and any ideas on how to fix?

January 13th, 2011, 11:33 PM	#6
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Exporting to tape has been a problem throughout all the Elements releases (I gave up at PE7) and it looks like it's a problem in Pro.

January 13th, 2011, 11:51 PM	#7
Matthew Cairns Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 67	Seems silly but to save the project and get my timeline on HDV tape I'm now creating an m2t file in Premiere, importing into Vegas and trying to print to tape - requiring another render of the file. My fingers are crossed Vegas stands up and the HD700 is stable.