XH-A1 .M2T files versus Premiere Pro 3.2 at DVinfo.net

Bruce Pelley · July 5th, 2010, 08:59 AM

Good Day All,

I’m just in the process of breaking new ground and getting my feet wet in HDV editing as I got to borrow a Canon XH- A1 camcorder for the holiday weekend for shooting, test and evaluation purposes.

Regrettably, I only have Adobe Premiere version 3.2 for the PC to work with which has considerably less options (than CS 4 for example) in regards to exporting and specific project presets to name a couple of areas.

I need all of the advice, suggestions and pointers available to help a newbie like myself get off the ground and airborne!

Has some party (or Adobe for that matter) designed a custom preset or offer specific project template support for the XH-A1 in either the 30f or 60i modes?

The clip trimming process has already begun, the challenge now is how best to proceed after that process is completed.

Right now on the timeline in Premiere, I have a bunch of .M2T clips which I had imported in once they made it into my PC via HDV Split.

My primary goal is to preserve the original footage’s quality to the fullest extent possible throughout the process and ultimately successfully deliver this to dvd in widescreen 16:9/original format.

My quandry is this, since .M2T files are so highly compressed, if I convert or export them to work with them on another program quality will take a hit!

My export options are these:

1) Tape. In my case….. it’s mini-dv.
2) Audio track only. Not relevant in this case.
3) Adobe Media Encoder (which of course further compresses the material and shrinks/downgrades it).
4) Single Frame to various graphic/picture types.
5) Encore (which I do not want to use to make a dvd with as there's better choices available.

What do you think I should best proceed in order to obtain (at the very least) a semi-professional looking outcome?

What is your workflow?

Thanks!

Thomas R. Smith · July 5th, 2010, 03:48 PM

You export using Adobe Media Encoder and from with in that, you export to a lossless codec such as cineform to get your master edit file. From that you then re-encode to H.264 for web, MPEG2 for dvd etc...

Bruce Pelley · July 5th, 2010, 11:00 PM

Thomas: Sorry for my ignorance, however I do not know to do what was decribed in your reply.

Can it be done in version 3.2?

To All: If someone would kindly explain in greater detail how those steps go I would greatly appreciate it.

I do not know how to export to a "lossless codec" within AME & do not own Cineform which is expensive.

Do I need CS 4 to be successfull?

Thanks!

Tim Kolb · July 6th, 2010, 02:09 AM

That Canon camera shoots HDV...the "30f" mode should run in a 60i HDV 1080 project.

As for moving it around...what is the nature of the "moving" ? Are you taking some footage to someone to do some effects work? Is there another editor who will finish what you've begun? You can complete the project in CS3...

...need a bit more detail.

Bruce Pelley · July 6th, 2010, 08:03 AM

Tim,

My situation in a nutshell is this.

With a borrowed A1 which I'm in the process of evaluating (today it has to be returned) and 2 of my GL-2's, I independently film with one camcorder while the rest are lent out to an worship ministry AV team who are shooting the same event. They create their own program as they take a live feed from their camera mix and capture to a Mac.

I do all of the editing and post production myself for my version which is broadcast in another city from theirs. Special or after effects is beyond my experience level and knowledge. The footage used for the most part is entirely mine or close to it especially recently. My goal is to finally step up from being a very long-term SD shooter to HD. The A1 does a wonderful job in HD. Will buy a use done when the right opportunity presents itself.

The term "moving" refers to the church pastor who to some extent walks around the platform while making his presentation.

Right now I'm trying to make the transistion between the 2 formats & am endeavoring to find out what's needed and how to succeed.

I'm wondering if investing $300 to CS4 may open some doors towards making progress.

Tim Kolb · July 6th, 2010, 10:05 AM

Well, CS3 should cut HDV without much issue...

As far as "losing quality"... That's so relative that it becomes a difficult conversation to have on a web forum.

If you're headed to standard def on a DVD, it should be fine. Next to the GL2's DV, it should rock if it's exposed properly and shot well.

There is a certain point where what you are doing is enough and stressing over what system gets the closest to perfection is counter productive when you are on a budget that simply can't purchase perfection. So few of us can...you could drive yourself nuts (and many do.)

I shoot a tremendous amount of my projects on a Sony EX1. Is it the best camera available? Certainly not. Is it one hell of a value for what it costs...you bet it is. I deliver projects that make my clients happy and move forward. There is nothing wrong with HDV either, and the Canon cameras make really competent and aesthetically pleasing images, particularly for those who are experienced with them. Editing HDV native used to be a struggle for older computers, and that's where CineForm's value also comes in on top of the quality of the image. It's optimized for a computer CCU to process...MPEG is a bit more awkward and therefore, taxing.

CS4 had some improvements, but had some odd behaviors as well. It was the first version to change over from setting up a project with one edit setting (HDV 60i or DV Widescreen for example), to setting up a project as an open container and attaching the settings to the sequences. You can now have one sequence that's HDV and another sequence that is DV, and another that is DVCProHD if you want...but the restructure was significant and I think that CS4 had some growing pains.

CS5 is a step up without a doubt, but you'll need a 64 bit machine and more RAM to run it.

Bruce Pelley · July 7th, 2010, 11:09 AM

Tim,

Specifcally, what Cineform product were you reffering to in your post, Neo Scene perhaps?

At this point all I'm trying to do is to find a solution that I can deal & does a nice job that's understandable.

Which Cineform product is best for my case?

Thanks,
Bruce

Tim Kolb · July 7th, 2010, 11:11 AM

Well, first...is the HDV editing mode not working for you in PPro?

Bruce Pelley · July 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM

Tim,

This this my first time/serious attempt in HDV editingland so I'm in the tedious process of slowly slogging it out (the learning curve) step by step.

Actually the ability to mix and match SD + HD clips on the same timeline/sequence would come in real handy!

It also looks like Cineform is going to be a winner and most useful.

Preserving visual fidelity has always been important to me.

Please take care and thanks.

July 5th, 2010, 08:59 AM	#1
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	XH-A1 .M2T files versus Premiere Pro 3.2 Good Day All, I’m just in the process of breaking new ground and getting my feet wet in HDV editing as I got to borrow a Canon XH- A1 camcorder for the holiday weekend for shooting, test and evaluation purposes. Regrettably, I only have Adobe Premiere version 3.2 for the PC to work with which has considerably less options (than CS 4 for example) in regards to exporting and specific project presets to name a couple of areas. I need all of the advice, suggestions and pointers available to help a newbie like myself get off the ground and airborne! Has some party (or Adobe for that matter) designed a custom preset or offer specific project template support for the XH-A1 in either the 30f or 60i modes? The clip trimming process has already begun, the challenge now is how best to proceed after that process is completed. Right now on the timeline in Premiere, I have a bunch of .M2T clips which I had imported in once they made it into my PC via HDV Split. My primary goal is to preserve the original footage’s quality to the fullest extent possible throughout the process and ultimately successfully deliver this to dvd in widescreen 16:9/original format. My quandry is this, since .M2T files are so highly compressed, if I convert or export them to work with them on another program quality will take a hit! My export options are these: 1) Tape. In my case….. it’s mini-dv. 2) Audio track only. Not relevant in this case. 3) Adobe Media Encoder (which of course further compresses the material and shrinks/downgrades it). 4) Single Frame to various graphic/picture types. 5) Encore (which I do not want to use to make a dvd with as there's better choices available. What do you think I should best proceed in order to obtain (at the very least) a semi-professional looking outcome? What is your workflow? Thanks!

July 6th, 2010, 02:09 AM	#4
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	That Canon camera shoots HDV...the "30f" mode should run in a 60i HDV 1080 project. As for moving it around...what is the nature of the "moving" ? Are you taking some footage to someone to do some effects work? Is there another editor who will finish what you've begun? You can complete the project in CS3... ...need a bit more detail. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

July 6th, 2010, 10:05 AM	#6
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Well, CS3 should cut HDV without much issue... As far as "losing quality"... That's so relative that it becomes a difficult conversation to have on a web forum. If you're headed to standard def on a DVD, it should be fine. Next to the GL2's DV, it should rock if it's exposed properly and shot well. There is a certain point where what you are doing is enough and stressing over what system gets the closest to perfection is counter productive when you are on a budget that simply can't purchase perfection. So few of us can...you could drive yourself nuts (and many do.) I shoot a tremendous amount of my projects on a Sony EX1. Is it the best camera available? Certainly not. Is it one hell of a value for what it costs...you bet it is. I deliver projects that make my clients happy and move forward. There is nothing wrong with HDV either, and the Canon cameras make really competent and aesthetically pleasing images, particularly for those who are experienced with them. Editing HDV native used to be a struggle for older computers, and that's where CineForm's value also comes in on top of the quality of the image. It's optimized for a computer CCU to process...MPEG is a bit more awkward and therefore, taxing. CS4 had some improvements, but had some odd behaviors as well. It was the first version to change over from setting up a project with one edit setting (HDV 60i or DV Widescreen for example), to setting up a project as an open container and attaching the settings to the sequences. You can now have one sequence that's HDV and another sequence that is DV, and another that is DVCProHD if you want...but the restructure was significant and I think that CS4 had some growing pains. CS5 is a step up without a doubt, but you'll need a 64 bit machine and more RAM to run it. __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

July 7th, 2010, 11:11 AM	#8
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	Well, first...is the HDV editing mode not working for you in PPro? __________________ TimK Kolb Productions

July 5th, 2010, 03:48 PM	#2
Thomas R. Smith New Boot Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 11	You export using Adobe Media Encoder and from with in that, you export to a lossless codec such as cineform to get your master edit file. From that you then re-encode to H.264 for web, MPEG2 for dvd etc...

July 5th, 2010, 11:00 PM	#3
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Thomas: Sorry for my ignorance, however I do not know to do what was decribed in your reply. Can it be done in version 3.2? To All: If someone would kindly explain in greater detail how those steps go I would greatly appreciate it. I do not know how to export to a "lossless codec" within AME & do not own Cineform which is expensive. Do I need CS 4 to be successfull? Thanks!

July 6th, 2010, 08:03 AM	#5
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Tim, My situation in a nutshell is this. With a borrowed A1 which I'm in the process of evaluating (today it has to be returned) and 2 of my GL-2's, I independently film with one camcorder while the rest are lent out to an worship ministry AV team who are shooting the same event. They create their own program as they take a live feed from their camera mix and capture to a Mac. I do all of the editing and post production myself for my version which is broadcast in another city from theirs. Special or after effects is beyond my experience level and knowledge. The footage used for the most part is entirely mine or close to it especially recently. My goal is to finally step up from being a very long-term SD shooter to HD. The A1 does a wonderful job in HD. Will buy a use done when the right opportunity presents itself. The term "moving" refers to the church pastor who to some extent walks around the platform while making his presentation. Right now I'm trying to make the transistion between the 2 formats & am endeavoring to find out what's needed and how to succeed. I'm wondering if investing $300 to CS4 may open some doors towards making progress.

July 7th, 2010, 11:09 AM	#7
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Tim, Specifcally, what Cineform product were you reffering to in your post, Neo Scene perhaps? At this point all I'm trying to do is to find a solution that I can deal & does a nice job that's understandable. Which Cineform product is best for my case? Thanks, Bruce

July 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM	#9
Bruce Pelley Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 339	Tim, This this my first time/serious attempt in HDV editingland so I'm in the tedious process of slowly slogging it out (the learning curve) step by step. Actually the ability to mix and match SD + HD clips on the same timeline/sequence would come in real handy! It also looks like Cineform is going to be a winner and most useful. Preserving visual fidelity has always been important to me. Please take care and thanks.