Problem with h.264 output and filesize

[Per Kristensen]

I have been editing AVCHD video from my recent 7-day vacation to Rome in CS5. I want to output to h.264. I want to make my first 1h 24m edit fit on a DVD9 so I first set the average bitrate in the mainconcept encoder selection to 12.5mpbs. The m2t file came out at 13.3GB wich is to large. I then tried lowering the average bitrate, but the filesize came out EXACTLY the same!?

I am using the h.264 bluray preset. What am I missing here? Is it not the average bitrate that controls the final output size like when encoding DVD?

[Per Kristensen]

I just tried another output encode setting with lower average bitrate at about 7mbps. In the dialog it said that suspected filesize was around 8500MB, but the final file is 16GB!?! It is like is is just outputting constant max bitrate?!?

[Harm Millaard]

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve. AVCHD on a DVD???

It sounds like putting tomato juice in the gas tank of your car, because you like tomato juice. But does your car run better? I doubt it.

[Randall Leong]

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve. AVCHD on a DVD???

Actually, AVCHD is possible on a standard-capacity DVD. However, the maximum video bitrate is limited to 18 Mbps for AVCHD content that is to be authored onto DVD. In addition, no Adobe product can author high-definition content of any sort onto standard DVD; in other words, HD content requires full Blu-ray media if you're going to rely on Encore alone while standard DVD authoring in Encore is limited to SDTV content (or HD content that's been transcoded and downconverted to SD).

Back to the OP, Per:

Are you using Encore? If so, I am suspecting that Encore is actually transcoding back to the project's automatic defaults, which resulted in the file size being too large. Encore's automatic transcoding feature cannot be set to a bitrate lower than 15 Mbps for Blu-ray encodes.

[Per Kristensen]

Originally Posted by Randall Leong

Actually, AVCHD is possible on a standard-capacity DVD. However, the maximum video bitrate is limited to 18 Mbps for AVCHD content that is to be authored onto DVD. In addition, no Adobe product can author high-definition content of any sort onto standard DVD; in other words, HD content requires full Blu-Ray media if you're going to rely on Encore alone while standard DVD authoring in Encore is limited to SDTV content (or HD content that's been transcoded and downconverted to SD).

Well actually I already made one DVD bluray disc using Encore CS5 wich works in stand-alone player so... That Video however was edited in Vegas.

[Randall Leong]

That's not the problem. The problem is AME (Adobe Media Encoder). H.264 files made using AME CS5 are not fully compatible with Encore's "Don't Transcode" setting for individual videos. I tried, and Encore wants to re-transcode all H.264 content made via AME CS5 using the project's default automatic transcode settings (which, by default, is set to 15 Mbps MPEG-2 @ 1440x1080 unless those settings are changed).

[Per Kristensen]

ok, I see. Do you know if TMPGEnc xpress 4's mpeg4-avc files are compatible?

[Harm Millaard]

Originally Posted by Per Kristensen

Well actually I already made one DVD bluray disc using Encore CS5 wich works in stand-alone player so... That Video however was edited in Vegas.

How do you make a DVD bluray disc? Same way as a submersible car?

[Robert Young]

I used to do this back when BR was new and the blank disks were $20 each.
I can't remember all of the details, but basically, you generate a low bit rate BR file, create a BD image in Encore (this was probably CS3), and burn to DVD using ImgBurn.
The BR DVD would play in most stand alone BR players as well as Sony Play Station.

[Ann Bens]

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

How do you make a DVD bluray disc? Same way as a submersible car?

Very easy i make them all the time: On a dvd5 will fit about 20 minutes of full quality HD material.
In Encore make a BR iso and burn it with Nero as an image onto a dvd.
No BR burner required just a BR player either pc or standalone.

Ah: see Robert beat me to it.

[Randall Leong]

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

How do you make a DVD bluray disc? Same way as a submersible car?

As Robert and Ann stated, a third-party program is required (in addition to the Adobe suite) for HD burns onto DVD. The Adobe suite by itself cannot do this; in fact, Encore will not even allow you to select a Blu-ray disc capacity smaller than 25GB. If you use Encore alone and your media's capacity is less than 25GB, you're forced to select DVD, which will automatically downconvert HD content to SD resolution.

[Per Kristensen]

Are there any freeware bluray authoring software I could use instead?

[Per Kristensen]

Also no one has really adressed my actual question about why the filesize comes out so oversized...

[Randall Leong]

Originally Posted by Per Kristensen

Also no one has really adressed my actual question about why the filesize comes out so oversized...

It came out so oversized because of a "bug" in Encore CS5 which re-transcodes (or re-compresses) any H.264 encodes out of AME CS5. First, you've already prepared the compressed video in AME CS5 - but then, Encore CS5 recompresses your already compressed video, making an extra-large file without increasing the video quality. In fact, the video quality from the "re-compressed" larger file is actually worse than what you've put in! What makes this bad is that there is no way at all whatsoever to disable this re-compression - Encore CS5 will ALWAYS re-compress all H.264 videos that have been encoded using AME CS5 no matter what you do.

At this point you have two options:

1. Use a third-party program to encode your H.264 videos, OR
2. Wait until Adobe releases a patched or updated version of AME CS5 and/or Encore CS5.

[Per Kristensen]

Originally Posted by Randall Leong

It came out so oversized because of a "bug" in Encore CS5 which re-transcodes (or re-compresses) any H.264 encodes out of AME CS5. First, you've already prepared the compressed video in AME CS5 - but then, Encore CS5 recompresses your already compressed video, making an extra-large file without increasing the video quality. In fact, the video quality from the "re-compressed" larger file is actually worse than what you've put in! What makes this bad is that there is no way at all whatsoever to disable this re-compression - Encore CS5 will ALWAYS re-compress all H.264 videos that have been encoded using AME CS5 no matter what you do.

At this point you have two options:

1. Use a third-party program to encode your H.264 videos, OR
2. Wait until Adobe releases a patched or updated version of AME CS5 and/or Encore CS5.

You misunderstood. I am not talking about Encore, but the output file from Premiere. I havent even gotten to Encore yet, but it seems I dont have to bother since it wont work anyway. Pretty severe bug from Adobe IMO. I was hoping to at least be able to output my edit in h.264 in a file that would fit on a DVD9, bluray structure or not...