16:9 question at DVinfo.net

Lucinda Luvaas · July 13th, 2005, 08:22 PM

I'm working on a 16:9 timeline and this is the first one for me, having only used 4:3 previously.

I'm using Adobe Premiere 6.5 and there is a setting for 16:9/NTSC DV, etc. and I chose that. It doesn't look letterboxed on my standard def tv, I don't have a 16:9 TV.

Sorry to be so new to this issue, but will the Premiere settings for 16:9 be ok? or is there something more I need to do? Since I can't see the final output I'm not sure it's correct, what I'm doing.

Could I change to a 4:3 timeline if necessary?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Lucinda

Miguel Lombana · July 13th, 2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucinda Luvaas

I'm working on a 16:9 timeline and this is the first one for me, having only used 4:3 previously.

I'm using Adobe Premiere 6.5 and there is a setting for 16:9/NTSC DV, etc. and I chose that. It doesn't look letterboxed on my standard def tv, I don't have a 16:9 TV.

Sorry to be so new to this issue, but will the Premiere settings for 16:9 be ok? or is there something more I need to do? Since I can't see the final output I'm not sure it's correct, what I'm doing.

Could I change to a 4:3 timeline if necessary?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Lucinda

in my business of wedding video production i've been asking all my customers if they have 16:9 sets and offering the option for their dvd's. what i've found is that a large number of them do have widescreens however they opt to choose the 4:3 format for compatibility with their relatives who may not be technically advanced.

the option that i've chosen to do is issue 2 cuts, one widescreen flat out 16:9 and one where the 16:9 timeline is placed into a 4:3 project timeline which will do an automatic letterbox. on some dvd's i'm able to compress by re-encoding the footage and get both on 1 disc as an option in the menu, on others i have to create a 2nd dvd for the customer.

i don't use premier 6.5 anymore, however i'm sure that compared to pro you should be able to do the exact same thing. create a 16:9 project, import your footage, edit and finalize. once you have the finished product, create a 4:3 project, import that widescreen file to the 4:3 time line and export it back out as 4:3, you will have a ws letterbox project and you only have to do 1 edit session.

hope this helps a little.

Lucinda Luvaas · July 13th, 2005, 11:56 PM

Miguel,

That sounds great! I'll certainly try it and see. I've been nervous about this because I've never done it before. Thanks so much for your help and advice!

Lucinda

Lucinda Luvaas · July 14th, 2005, 12:19 AM

Miguel:

What should the frame size be for the 16:9 format? I've used 720x480 and not sure that's correct.

I tried what you suggested and don't see the letterbox wide screen after exporting the widescreen file to the 4:3 timeline and exporting back out as 4:3....so I'm wondering if the size is correct? or what I'm doing wrong.

Hope you can help!

Lucinda

Miguel Lombana · July 15th, 2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucinda Luvaas

Miguel:

What should the frame size be for the 16:9 format? I've used 720x480 and not sure that's correct.

I tried what you suggested and don't see the letterbox wide screen after exporting the widescreen file to the 4:3 timeline and exporting back out as 4:3....so I'm wondering if the size is correct? or what I'm doing wrong.

Hope you can help!

Lucinda

Hi Lucinda,

Since I don't run 6.x anymore and now run PPro 1.5 I can't reference the commands for you on my system. Now from memory, I just created a default 16:9 project (NTSC or PAL Widescreen) when Premier starts, do all the editing and export it to AVI using all default settings, I don't recall changing anything.

On the 4:3 side, I open a default 4:3 project (NTSC or PAL Standard), import the 16:9 project and you will see it is letterboxed from the start. To complete, export that using defaults and you're ready for DVD or whatever format you need.

I'll see if I can find some reference or cheat sheets for you and post them here if I can find something on the Adobe site or elsewhere. If I'm reading between the lines, I think that you're concerned about what settings to use export the widescreen, just export movie from the file menu and it will deftaul to Avi than you can import that back into the new 4:3 project.

Let me know if this works or if I have to install 6.5 on my end to check.

ML

Greg Boston · July 15th, 2005, 01:52 PM

Lucinda,

The correct dimensions for 16:9 aspect are 852x480. You definintely need to use this dimension for any graphics inserts. As for the video, 16:9 is still 720x480 with an 'anamorphic' flag that tells the NLE to stretch the horizontal axis to make the picture appear correct. You would then render your sequence out as the same way you captured it, (ie 720x480 with anamorphic flag).

You may or may not have to inform the dvd authoring app that you are bringing in widescreen video but look for that option anyway. Then, when you burn the dvd, there should be a place where you tell it to 'set' the anamorphic flag bit on the dvd. This will inform the player that is is playing widesreen video. The player will have a video setup menu where you tell it what type of tv is attached, either 4:3 or 16:9. The player will then letterbox widescreen video if playing to a 4:3 set and leave it alone when playing on a 16:9 set. All DVD players have this but most folks don't know how to set it up and it seems some players come with the 16:9 tv aspect ration on by default. Since you weren't seeing letterbox on your 4:3 tv, you were either playing it back directly from the camera or you didn't set the anamorphic flag when you burned the dvd, or you haven't told your dvd player that you have a 4:3 set attached.

You shouldn't have to do any letterboxing in your NLE unless you have both standard and widescreen footage mixed in the same sequence. Don't try changing the dimensions of your footage from 720x480 to 852x480 because this will cause the NLE to resample the 720 pixels into 852 pixels and you will lose picture quality (been there, done that). The 852x480 is only for creating full screen graphics in an outside application and cropping still pictures to sit correctly on the 16:9 timeline.

I have done DVD's this way and it works without losing picture quality. My XL-2 wide footage looked great on DVD playing on my 65" HDTV even though it wasn't HD.

good luck,

=gb=

Lucinda Luvaas · July 15th, 2005, 09:06 PM

Hi Miguel and Greg,

Miguel, I'll try this tomorrow and let you know. I've never used AVI export.... Greg, I have a dvd recorder not a burner, so I'm not sure about what will happen there. I have to read the manual and see. I'll get back to you on this too. I'm not so concerned about outputting to DVD right now as I am making sure I'm doint the 16:9 correctly and I have chosen the 16:9 settings in Premiere, as far as the flags are concerned, I'm not sure and that's what I'm trying to find out.

Lucinda

Lucinda Luvaas · July 17th, 2005, 03:13 PM

Hi Greg,

Thanks so much for the very informative instructions re: 16:9.

I went to my Panasonic DVD Recorder and went to Aspect Settings...was relieved to see that altho' the default setting is 4:3, it does have 16:9.

I am a bit confused however, about two things in the Menu Instructions for the Recorder:

It says TV Aspect and gives the two choices and I clicked on 16:9.Then it has "4:3 Seetings for DVD-Video, (Select How video from DVD-Video is shown on a 4:3 standard aspect TV) and gives these two selections: Pan & Scan or Letterbox.

I didn't know what to do here if anything, so I didn't select either.

The next Setting was:
4:3 TV Settings for DVD-Ram, (Select how video from DVD-Ram is shown on a 4:3 Standard Aspect TV.
And the choices are: 4:3, Pan&Scan and Letterbox.

My primary concern is to be able to backup using the dvd recorder, backup my video files and timelines and for final output to dvdr.

So, is it enough to just specify the TV Aspect, being 16:9, or do I need to do anything about these two other settings?

Thanks so much for your help! I wouldn't have known about the graphics settings for 16:9, would have used 720x480, if you hadn't told me.

You're extremely helpful.

Lucinda

Richard Noll · July 19th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Qoute:

I am a bit confused however, about two things in the Menu Instructions for the Recorder:

It says TV Aspect and gives the two choices and I clicked on 16:9.Then it has "4:3 Seetings for DVD-Video, (Select How video from DVD-Video is shown on a 4:3 standard aspect TV) and gives these two selections: Pan & Scan or Letterbox.

I didn't know what to do here if anything, so I didn't select either.

----------------------

All this means is that when you play a DVD-Video that is letterbox or widescreen you can either allow it to pan and scan the entire image or have the black bars at the top and bottom so that the entire image is visible on the 4:3 screen. I would choose letterbox as a defualt but you can change it back anytime you need to. My 58" has a quick button to cycle through the many options on the fly so I can watch the effect on the actual video image.

For backing up, if you shot in 16:9 you should have these set for 16:9. If you shot in 4:3, set it for pan and scan.

Lucinda Luvaas · July 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM

Richard,

Thanks! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I was away. I'll make it letterbox then. You say I can change it back anytime to Pan and Scan...so this selection, between Pan and Scan and Letterbox doesn't affect the actual burning of the dvdr?

Lucinda

Jay Patel · August 4th, 2005, 06:54 AM

I got my GS400, first camcoder to shoot with 16:9. I had old sony analog camcoder. Also have tested GS120 with Cinema mode to look like 16:9.

I have Panasonic HS2 DVD recorder and have the same question, but I would like to shoot family wedding with 16:9 but do not know how it would see on regular TV.

Should I shoot the video with "Wide"(16:9) and when I burn the DVD, I shold choose 4:3 and for newer TV use 16:9.

I have shoot 10 min video with 16:9 last night. I have 55" Toshiba projection TV purchase 5 years ago. The video was look like 4:3 not 16:9. Does 16:9 has letterbox ?

Thanks

Greg Boston · August 4th, 2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucinda Luvaas

Richard,

Thanks! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I was away. I'll make it letterbox then. You say I can change it back anytime to Pan and Scan...so this selection, between Pan and Scan and Letterbox doesn't affect the actual burning of the dvdr?

Lucinda

That is correct. These are just output settings for the DVD unit to use on playback according to the type of tv set you have attached. BTW, 'burner' and 'recorder' are synonymous terms. Because DVD and CD drives use a laser to 'burn' pits into the surface, the slang term 'burner' has come into use.

Whatever DVD authoring software you use to create menus and links to play various parts of the video should have a place to set the 'anamorphic' flag bit which will tell the DVD player that it is playing widescreen material and needs to format the output according to the settings you selected in your DVD player set-up menu (ie: 16:9 or 4:3 set and LB vs. P&S)

regards,

-gb-

Kent Metschan · August 18th, 2005, 12:30 PM

This wasn't working for me at first and then I had to go into the project settings and check "scale clips to project dimensions."

I don't know why Premiere made it that I have to do that every time. There should be a save settings box. Another idiot feature by them is that after I check this box you have to then remove all the files that you want correctly scalled out of the project and then re-import them.

What happened to the good old days when a company had bug fixes and offered free updates for minor fixes. They are few and far between with Adobe these days. They used to do it all the time. Now they call the bug fixes an update and charge you for them.

July 13th, 2005, 08:22 PM	#1
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	16:9 question I'm working on a 16:9 timeline and this is the first one for me, having only used 4:3 previously. I'm using Adobe Premiere 6.5 and there is a setting for 16:9/NTSC DV, etc. and I chose that. It doesn't look letterboxed on my standard def tv, I don't have a 16:9 TV. Sorry to be so new to this issue, but will the Premiere settings for 16:9 be ok? or is there something more I need to do? Since I can't see the final output I'm not sure it's correct, what I'm doing. Could I change to a 4:3 timeline if necessary? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Lucinda

August 4th, 2005, 06:54 AM	#11
Jay Patel Tourist Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3	16:9 Question. I got my GS400, first camcoder to shoot with 16:9. I had old sony analog camcoder. Also have tested GS120 with Cinema mode to look like 16:9. I have Panasonic HS2 DVD recorder and have the same question, but I would like to shoot family wedding with 16:9 but do not know how it would see on regular TV. Should I shoot the video with "Wide"(16:9) and when I burn the DVD, I shold choose 4:3 and for newer TV use 16:9. I have shoot 10 min video with 16:9 last night. I have 55" Toshiba projection TV purchase 5 years ago. The video was look like 4:3 not 16:9. Does 16:9 has letterbox ? Thanks

July 13th, 2005, 11:56 PM	#3
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Miguel, That sounds great! I'll certainly try it and see. I've been nervous about this because I've never done it before. Thanks so much for your help and advice! Lucinda

July 14th, 2005, 12:19 AM	#4
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Miguel: What should the frame size be for the 16:9 format? I've used 720x480 and not sure that's correct. I tried what you suggested and don't see the letterbox wide screen after exporting the widescreen file to the 4:3 timeline and exporting back out as 4:3....so I'm wondering if the size is correct? or what I'm doing wrong. Hope you can help! Lucinda

July 15th, 2005, 01:52 PM	#6
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Lucinda, The correct dimensions for 16:9 aspect are 852x480. You definintely need to use this dimension for any graphics inserts. As for the video, 16:9 is still 720x480 with an 'anamorphic' flag that tells the NLE to stretch the horizontal axis to make the picture appear correct. You would then render your sequence out as the same way you captured it, (ie 720x480 with anamorphic flag). You may or may not have to inform the dvd authoring app that you are bringing in widescreen video but look for that option anyway. Then, when you burn the dvd, there should be a place where you tell it to 'set' the anamorphic flag bit on the dvd. This will inform the player that is is playing widesreen video. The player will have a video setup menu where you tell it what type of tv is attached, either 4:3 or 16:9. The player will then letterbox widescreen video if playing to a 4:3 set and leave it alone when playing on a 16:9 set. All DVD players have this but most folks don't know how to set it up and it seems some players come with the 16:9 tv aspect ration on by default. Since you weren't seeing letterbox on your 4:3 tv, you were either playing it back directly from the camera or you didn't set the anamorphic flag when you burned the dvd, or you haven't told your dvd player that you have a 4:3 set attached. You shouldn't have to do any letterboxing in your NLE unless you have both standard and widescreen footage mixed in the same sequence. Don't try changing the dimensions of your footage from 720x480 to 852x480 because this will cause the NLE to resample the 720 pixels into 852 pixels and you will lose picture quality (been there, done that). The 852x480 is only for creating full screen graphics in an outside application and cropping still pictures to sit correctly on the 16:9 timeline. I have done DVD's this way and it works without losing picture quality. My XL-2 wide footage looked great on DVD playing on my 65" HDTV even though it wasn't HD. good luck, =gb=

July 15th, 2005, 09:06 PM	#7
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Hi Miguel and Greg, Miguel, I'll try this tomorrow and let you know. I've never used AVI export.... Greg, I have a dvd recorder not a burner, so I'm not sure about what will happen there. I have to read the manual and see. I'll get back to you on this too. I'm not so concerned about outputting to DVD right now as I am making sure I'm doint the 16:9 correctly and I have chosen the 16:9 settings in Premiere, as far as the flags are concerned, I'm not sure and that's what I'm trying to find out. Lucinda

July 17th, 2005, 03:13 PM	#8
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Hi Greg, Thanks so much for the very informative instructions re: 16:9. I went to my Panasonic DVD Recorder and went to Aspect Settings...was relieved to see that altho' the default setting is 4:3, it does have 16:9. I am a bit confused however, about two things in the Menu Instructions for the Recorder: It says TV Aspect and gives the two choices and I clicked on 16:9.Then it has "4:3 Seetings for DVD-Video, (Select How video from DVD-Video is shown on a 4:3 standard aspect TV) and gives these two selections: Pan & Scan or Letterbox. I didn't know what to do here if anything, so I didn't select either. The next Setting was: 4:3 TV Settings for DVD-Ram, (Select how video from DVD-Ram is shown on a 4:3 Standard Aspect TV. And the choices are: 4:3, Pan&Scan and Letterbox. My primary concern is to be able to backup using the dvd recorder, backup my video files and timelines and for final output to dvdr. So, is it enough to just specify the TV Aspect, being 16:9, or do I need to do anything about these two other settings? Thanks so much for your help! I wouldn't have known about the graphics settings for 16:9, would have used 720x480, if you hadn't told me. You're extremely helpful. Lucinda

July 19th, 2005, 06:33 PM	#9
Richard Noll New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 17	Qoute: I am a bit confused however, about two things in the Menu Instructions for the Recorder: It says TV Aspect and gives the two choices and I clicked on 16:9.Then it has "4:3 Seetings for DVD-Video, (Select How video from DVD-Video is shown on a 4:3 standard aspect TV) and gives these two selections: Pan & Scan or Letterbox. I didn't know what to do here if anything, so I didn't select either. ---------------------- All this means is that when you play a DVD-Video that is letterbox or widescreen you can either allow it to pan and scan the entire image or have the black bars at the top and bottom so that the entire image is visible on the 4:3 screen. I would choose letterbox as a defualt but you can change it back anytime you need to. My 58" has a quick button to cycle through the many options on the fly so I can watch the effect on the actual video image. For backing up, if you shot in 16:9 you should have these set for 16:9. If you shot in 4:3, set it for pan and scan.

July 23rd, 2005, 01:25 PM	#10
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Richard, Thanks! Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I was away. I'll make it letterbox then. You say I can change it back anytime to Pan and Scan...so this selection, between Pan and Scan and Letterbox doesn't affect the actual burning of the dvdr? Lucinda

August 18th, 2005, 12:30 PM	#13
Kent Metschan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 65	This wasn't working for me at first and then I had to go into the project settings and check "scale clips to project dimensions." I don't know why Premiere made it that I have to do that every time. There should be a save settings box. Another idiot feature by them is that after I check this box you have to then remove all the files that you want correctly scalled out of the project and then re-import them. What happened to the good old days when a company had bug fixes and offered free updates for minor fixes. They are few and far between with Adobe these days. They used to do it all the time. Now they call the bug fixes an update and charge you for them.