CS5 x64 and Mercury Playback Engine

Bill Zens · December 22nd, 2009, 05:39 PM

Thanks for the reply. I can tell Harm and the Financial director usually see eye to eye. I bet they probably like to enjoy a few beers together and argue aboutwho gets to pay...

Thanks, guys, Next one's on me!

Marty Baggen · January 16th, 2010, 10:38 PM

The Genesis Project: Technology Sneek Peek: Adobe® Mercury Playback Engine

David Dwyer · January 19th, 2010, 03:52 PM

So who can't wait for this mercury engine?

I'm holding off buying a new PC until I see this - Might just buy a Nvidia 295 card for this?

Harm Millaard · January 19th, 2010, 05:29 PM

I sincerely hope the nVidia GTX295 will be supported, but at this moment the only video cards that will be supported now are the GTX285 and the Quadro 3800, 4800 and 5800. I do hope this list will be extended to include more cards, like the GTX 295, 360, 380 and maybe even the 275 or below. I am also curious to know whether the C20x0 coprocessor will be supported. One thing is for sure, SLI will not be supported. At least not initially.

David Dwyer · January 20th, 2010, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

I sincerely hope the nVidia GTX295 will be supported, but at this moment the only video cards that will be supported now are the GTX285 and the Quadro 3800, 4800 and 5800. I do hope this list will be extended to include more cards, like the GTX 295, 360, 380 and maybe even the 275 or below. I am also curious to know whether the C20x0 coprocessor will be supported. One thing is for sure, SLI will not be supported. At least not initially.

SLI would be cool - Cheaper than a new PC with the speeds of GFX cards?

Is CS5 still due out in April?

Harm Millaard · January 20th, 2010, 05:02 AM

The old saying still applies: Those who know, don't tell, those who tell don't know.

Jay Bloomfield · January 20th, 2010, 02:07 PM

Here are some other problems, which I have posted elsewhere. First, CS5 will be the first "supposedly" full 64 bit Adobe suite. What I worry about is that Sony Vegas Pro has had two 64 bit versions (8.1 and 9.0) and neither has been full 64 bit. Various codecs and filters that are included with Vegas (not add ons that you you buy from a 3rd party) are still 32 bit. Vegas uses a surrogate program to communicate with the 32 bit components. The 32 bit codecs cannot address all the physical RAM that the OS can address. I don't know whether this is the source of instability or not, but neither 64 bit version of Vegas is stable enough for production work, at least for me. Sure, it uses as much physical RAM as you have, but what's the point, if it crashes and corrupts projects, without any warning?

Now, consider that on top of Adobe going to 64 bit with PP and AE CS5 (or possibly some 64/32 bit hybrid), they are also going to add in the Mercury CUDA acceleration engine. Now can we expect that to also be bug free immediately? Keep in mind that Adobe has been clever about only certifying a small number of video cards and that should help matters. But Mercury CS5 will still be an initial release. What's the chance that it will be good enough for production? And then you have nVidia's propensity for constantly issuing and upgrading it's buggy video drivers. The good news with that is that PC video gaming is almost dead (crushed by the gaming consoles), so nVidia will probably concentrate more on enterprise users.

But all in all, CS5 is going to be a very hard sell, unless initial reviews are favorable. We can only hope.

Mike Harvey · January 20th, 2010, 02:17 PM

I think Adobe has made it clear it's 64bit only, so there won't be any weird 64/32bit hybrids. I read somewhere where they flat out said CS4 will be the last to run on 32bit platforms. And given that Photoshop has been out for a while already in a pure 64bit version already, I'm sure a lot of filters already exist in 64bit form.

Also, I don't think PC gaming is dead. I don't play them, but the propensity of MMO's guarantees that PC gaming will be around for awhile. How that affects nVidia's business direction, who knows.

Todd Clark · January 20th, 2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Bloomfield

But all in all, CS5 is going to be a very hard sell, unless initial reviews are favorable. We can only hope.

I disagree! Can't wait for CS5

Jay Bloomfield · January 20th, 2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harvey

I think Adobe has made it clear it's 64bit only, so there won't be any weird 64/32bit hybrids. I read somewhere where they flat out said CS4 will be the last to run on 32bit platforms. And given that Photoshop has been out for a while already in a pure 64bit version already, I'm sure a lot of filters already exist in 64bit form.

The problem is that some codecs that are included with both PP and Vegas are authored by 3rd parties (such as MainConcept). MC now has 64 bit codecs available for sale, so you are probably right that CS5 will 100% 64 bit. The question is why SCS didn't use the 64 bit MC codecs for Vegas Pro?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Harvey

Also, I don't think PC gaming is dead. I don't play them, but the propensity of MMO's guarantees that PC gaming will be around for awhile. How that affects nVidia's business direction, who knows.

This is getting way off topic, but if you check any website that summarizes video game sales, you will see that the Nintendo Wii platform sells the most games (units sold), then XBox360, then Sony Playstation 3 and bringing up the rear by a considerable margin, PC-based games. Most popular new game titles are not even available for the PC platform. The PC gaming market could come back, but in the mean time, this is not a good sign for the overall development of PC-based graphics cards.

Adam Gold · January 20th, 2010, 06:30 PM

I'm looking forward to the new release, but I think we've all learned by now to not even think about installing anything from Adobe until the .2 update. You don't have to burn me more than 16 or 17 times...

Rob Johnson · January 20th, 2010, 07:35 PM

My files (HD) are playing back about that smoothly now. No bullsh*t. Even with some of the simpler dissolves. I guess I'm supposed to be impressed but, er, unless I'm just not seeing it, where's the colossal advantage? Granted it plays smoother with 900 layers of video. The smooth real-time playback was one of the new (and realized) selling points of CS4. The perpetual Technology Trap™ raises the bar yet again.

Peter Manojlovic · January 20th, 2010, 10:34 PM

Yeah Rob, but i think the performance sale is targeted for those that use AVCHD mainly....And the fact that each APP can get RAM filled without sharing resources, is the greater selling feature...

It's all speculation at this point....
But yes, looking forward to hearing more...

Pete Bauer · January 21st, 2010, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

You don't have to burn me more than 16 or 17 times...

Nolo contendere; we've all been there. Then again, Adobe's first go at 64 bit for their flagship application, Photoshop CS4 x64, is ROCK stable and notably more speedy than the 32bit version for me. It CAN be done; I don't see a lot of point to either praising or condemning CS5 until we are able to give the release version a try.

Rob Johnson · January 21st, 2010, 04:27 AM

I guess the main idea is to stay with what's working for you. I used to fall into the Technology Trap™ all the time. I had to have the latest and greatest, just because it was new. I was a chronic. Until I realized it was mostly a rat race. Point and fact: I know someone who still uses AE 5.5, and composes better looking stuff than most people using AE 9 (CS4). Guys with $5000 DSLRs (lens not included) who can't compose a memorable or striking photograph to save their life, as opposed to the old codger using a 70+ year old large format camera whose photographs end up on display in galleries.

It always goes to prove it's not what you have, but how well you use it.

January 16th, 2010, 10:38 PM	#17
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	The Genesis Project: Technology Sneek Peek: Adobe® Mercury Playback Engine Last edited by Pete Bauer; January 17th, 2010 at 08:18 AM.

January 20th, 2010, 06:30 PM	#26
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	I'm looking forward to the new release, but I think we've all learned by now to not even think about installing anything from Adobe until the .2 update. You don't have to burn me more than 16 or 17 times... __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

December 22nd, 2009, 05:39 PM	#16
Bill Zens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 191	Thanks for the reply. I can tell Harm and the Financial director usually see eye to eye. I bet they probably like to enjoy a few beers together and argue aboutwho gets to pay... Thanks, guys, Next one's on me!

January 19th, 2010, 03:52 PM	#18
David Dwyer Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chester, North West Posts: 565	So who can't wait for this mercury engine? I'm holding off buying a new PC until I see this - Might just buy a Nvidia 295 card for this?

January 19th, 2010, 05:29 PM	#19
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	I sincerely hope the nVidia GTX295 will be supported, but at this moment the only video cards that will be supported now are the GTX285 and the Quadro 3800, 4800 and 5800. I do hope this list will be extended to include more cards, like the GTX 295, 360, 380 and maybe even the 275 or below. I am also curious to know whether the C20x0 coprocessor will be supported. One thing is for sure, SLI will not be supported. At least not initially.

January 20th, 2010, 05:02 AM	#21
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	The old saying still applies: Those who know, don't tell, those who tell don't know.

January 20th, 2010, 02:07 PM	#22
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	Here are some other problems, which I have posted elsewhere. First, CS5 will be the first "supposedly" full 64 bit Adobe suite. What I worry about is that Sony Vegas Pro has had two 64 bit versions (8.1 and 9.0) and neither has been full 64 bit. Various codecs and filters that are included with Vegas (not add ons that you you buy from a 3rd party) are still 32 bit. Vegas uses a surrogate program to communicate with the 32 bit components. The 32 bit codecs cannot address all the physical RAM that the OS can address. I don't know whether this is the source of instability or not, but neither 64 bit version of Vegas is stable enough for production work, at least for me. Sure, it uses as much physical RAM as you have, but what's the point, if it crashes and corrupts projects, without any warning? Now, consider that on top of Adobe going to 64 bit with PP and AE CS5 (or possibly some 64/32 bit hybrid), they are also going to add in the Mercury CUDA acceleration engine. Now can we expect that to also be bug free immediately? Keep in mind that Adobe has been clever about only certifying a small number of video cards and that should help matters. But Mercury CS5 will still be an initial release. What's the chance that it will be good enough for production? And then you have nVidia's propensity for constantly issuing and upgrading it's buggy video drivers. The good news with that is that PC video gaming is almost dead (crushed by the gaming consoles), so nVidia will probably concentrate more on enterprise users. But all in all, CS5 is going to be a very hard sell, unless initial reviews are favorable. We can only hope.

January 20th, 2010, 02:17 PM	#23
Mike Harvey Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Renton, WA Posts: 43	I think Adobe has made it clear it's 64bit only, so there won't be any weird 64/32bit hybrids. I read somewhere where they flat out said CS4 will be the last to run on 32bit platforms. And given that Photoshop has been out for a while already in a pure 64bit version already, I'm sure a lot of filters already exist in 64bit form. Also, I don't think PC gaming is dead. I don't play them, but the propensity of MMO's guarantees that PC gaming will be around for awhile. How that affects nVidia's business direction, who knows.

January 20th, 2010, 07:35 PM	#27
Rob Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ft Myers, Florida Posts: 65	My files (HD) are playing back about that smoothly now. No bullsh*t. Even with some of the simpler dissolves. I guess I'm supposed to be impressed but, er, unless I'm just not seeing it, where's the colossal advantage? Granted it plays smoother with 900 layers of video. The smooth real-time playback was one of the new (and realized) selling points of CS4. The perpetual Technology Trap™ raises the bar yet again.

January 20th, 2010, 10:34 PM	#28
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Yeah Rob, but i think the performance sale is targeted for those that use AVCHD mainly....And the fact that each APP can get RAM filled without sharing resources, is the greater selling feature... It's all speculation at this point.... But yes, looking forward to hearing more...

January 21st, 2010, 04:27 AM	#30
Rob Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Ft Myers, Florida Posts: 65	I guess the main idea is to stay with what's working for you. I used to fall into the Technology Trap™ all the time. I had to have the latest and greatest, just because it was new. I was a chronic. Until I realized it was mostly a rat race. Point and fact: I know someone who still uses AE 5.5, and composes better looking stuff than most people using AE 9 (CS4). Guys with $5000 DSLRs (lens not included) who can't compose a memorable or striking photograph to save their life, as opposed to the old codger using a 70+ year old large format camera whose photographs end up on display in galleries. It always goes to prove it's not what you have, but how well you use it.