Which Field Order? at DVinfo.net

Glenn Oberlin · November 10th, 2009, 10:07 AM

One quick question from a newbie, when I encode footage made with my Canon HF S10 with setting of:
Type: MPEG Movie
File Size: 526.7 MB
Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Pixel Depth: 32
Frame Rate: 29.97
Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - Stereo
Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo
Total Duration: 00:03:10:00
Average Data Rate: 2.8 MB / second
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0
Do I want to set the Field Order to None(Progressive), Upper or Lower?
Guess I don't quite understand the field order thing yet,Thanks ……………

Shaun Roemich · November 10th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Upper.

Lower is pretty much for DV only.

Glenn Oberlin · November 10th, 2009, 10:53 AM

Upper it is then, Thanks

Tripp Woelfel · November 10th, 2009, 06:47 PM

Shaun's definition is accurate but depending upon the type of footage you're dealing with it's always lower field first for interlaced NTSC video in standard definition. Interlaced HD footage is always upper first.

I bring this up because you may deal with SD mpeg footage in the future as that's generally the format for tapeless SD video capture on contemporary cams.

Glenn Oberlin · November 11th, 2009, 01:27 PM

So do I understand this? my camcorder records in MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 which is UPPER so when encoding this I use UPPER. Now if I encode this down to a DVD I use lower field first for interlaced NTSC video in standard definition, or do I always use the field setting of the original footage?

Tripp Woelfel · November 11th, 2009, 09:17 PM

Glenn... You've got it. Your HD source footage is UFF (upper field first). For an interlaced DVD, it needs to be changed to LFF (lower) in the transcoding step. However, coming from HD footage, you might as well go progressive on the DVD. The resulting SD interlaced footage fields will likely be temporally identical as the footage will likely become progressive during the transcoder's down-resing. I don't know the inner workings of the Adobe Media Encoder so I'm guessing that's how it works.

Shaun Roemich · November 12th, 2009, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

it's always lower field first for interlaced NTSC video in standard definition.

Not actually true - DV is lower (DV, DVCam, DVCPro), CCIR601 (DigiBeta 720x486) and other SD analog video is upper first - Betacam, U-Matic, VHS...

DV REALLY messed up a lot of things when the makers chose to go lower first.

Tripp Woelfel · November 12th, 2009, 07:38 AM

Oops... That's what I get for drawing my own conclusion from my knowledge base. I'm used to being wrong and it will likely again before lunch. Such is my lot in life.

Mitch Hunt · November 12th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Glenn, you may also need to know that if you're outputting to the web or for playback on a computer you will need to use the progressive field order.

If you are downscaling video (for web or DVD) and are using Premere CS4.1 make sure and check "Use Maximum Render Quality" in the flyout menu in the export setting dialogue box for much better results. But on your next render remember to uncheck it, because it does add to your render time.

Shaun Roemich · November 12th, 2009, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

I'm used to being wrong and it will likely again before lunch.

I can't relate AT ALL! <laughs> No offense intended.

November 10th, 2009, 10:07 AM	#1
Glenn Oberlin New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Dalton, Ohio Posts: 16	Which Field Order? One quick question from a newbie, when I encode footage made with my Canon HF S10 with setting of: Type: MPEG Movie File Size: 526.7 MB Image Size: 1920 x 1080 Pixel Depth: 32 Frame Rate: 29.97 Source Audio Format: 48000 Hz - compressed - Stereo Project Audio Format: 48000 Hz - 32 bit floating point - Stereo Total Duration: 00:03:10:00 Average Data Rate: 2.8 MB / second Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0 Do I want to set the Field Order to None(Progressive), Upper or Lower? Guess I don't quite understand the field order thing yet,Thanks ……………

November 10th, 2009, 10:31 AM	#2
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Upper. Lower is pretty much for DV only. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

November 10th, 2009, 10:53 AM	#3
Glenn Oberlin New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Dalton, Ohio Posts: 16	Thanks Upper it is then, Thanks

November 11th, 2009, 01:27 PM	#5
Glenn Oberlin New Boot Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Dalton, Ohio Posts: 16	Do I understand this ? So do I understand this? my camcorder records in MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 which is UPPER so when encoding this I use UPPER. Now if I encode this down to a DVD I use lower field first for interlaced NTSC video in standard definition, or do I always use the field setting of the original footage?

November 10th, 2009, 06:47 PM	#4
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Shaun's definition is accurate but depending upon the type of footage you're dealing with it's always lower field first for interlaced NTSC video in standard definition. Interlaced HD footage is always upper first. I bring this up because you may deal with SD mpeg footage in the future as that's generally the format for tapeless SD video capture on contemporary cams.

November 11th, 2009, 09:17 PM	#6
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Glenn... You've got it. Your HD source footage is UFF (upper field first). For an interlaced DVD, it needs to be changed to LFF (lower) in the transcoding step. However, coming from HD footage, you might as well go progressive on the DVD. The resulting SD interlaced footage fields will likely be temporally identical as the footage will likely become progressive during the transcoder's down-resing. I don't know the inner workings of the Adobe Media Encoder so I'm guessing that's how it works.

November 12th, 2009, 07:38 AM	#8
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Oops... That's what I get for drawing my own conclusion from my knowledge base. I'm used to being wrong and it will likely again before lunch. Such is my lot in life.

November 12th, 2009, 08:53 AM	#9
Mitch Hunt Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Broken Bow, NE Posts: 145	Glenn, you may also need to know that if you're outputting to the web or for playback on a computer you will need to use the progressive field order. If you are downscaling video (for web or DVD) and are using Premere CS4.1 make sure and check "Use Maximum Render Quality" in the flyout menu in the export setting dialogue box for much better results. But on your next render remember to uncheck it, because it does add to your render time.