Adobe Premiere discussions from 2003

Christopher Hughes · June 8th, 2003, 05:28 PM

well all I am after is having pic smaller or perhaps just half screen with the rest filled with other video. Im not after any movement from left to right. Juts for both images set "solid" in their place with the movement of the film being the only movement. Hence I tried the motion thing, but the image moved right to left as the footage was panning left to right...so it looked very confusing and poor.

So I'll give Ed's tip a try. Thanks for ur help. If anyone has any nice websites or step by step explanations I would be greatful.

And one other thing...If you buy software hide the manual, cos u never know who's going to accidently put it in the bin (trashcan). Arrrrh!!!

Brad Simmons · June 8th, 2003, 11:24 PM

Quick question. I did a search and couldn't find anything specific. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough...

I'm shooting a movie in frame mode with the Canon XL1s. When I export this movie, the default frame rate already is 29.97. So, since the Canon frame mode is 30fps, should I change it to 30fps? I'm confused because of this statement by Bill Ravens in another thread:

-------------
"no matter how you slice it, the XL1s shoots in interlaced mode, ONLY. Normal mode is standard 60i with one field captured every 1/60 sec. Movie mode is interlaced with 2 fields captured simultaneaously every 1/30 sec."
-------------

Question #1. So is frame mode still 29.97? Or is it really 30fps?
Question #2. According to Bill's statment, frame mode is still interlaced, so should I export as lower fields first? Or do I export as "no fields"?

Thanks in advance.

Adrian Douglas · June 9th, 2003, 06:34 AM

I can't help you with the frame rate question as my camera is PAL, but as for exporting it depends on your final destination. If it's for TV then "lower field first" is what I use. If it's for CD/Web then I deinterlace before export.

Brad Simmons · June 9th, 2003, 11:00 AM

When using Premiere to export footage for the web, you're only going to get Good Quality/Huge File size, or Low Quality/Small File size.

It wasn't until I purchased the full version of Sorenson Squeeze (which includes the full Sorenson codec) that I got great results with low file size.
The full version of Cleaner works better as well. You get more control and both offer 2 pass VBR which is going to get you the quality you see on those Apple trailers. (it also helps that most of those trailers are shot on 35mm ;) )

Nigel Moore · June 9th, 2003, 12:17 PM

The Cleaner plug-in (Cleaner EZ) only comes with Premiere 6.0, where it formed the Save For web module. It was dropped in version 6.5. You can get good compression/quality with Cleaner EZ, but the default settings are preety crappy, and the app doesn't remember your custom settings.

The full version of Cleaner (current version is XL for Windows) is very powerful. Coupled with the Sorenson Pro codec you get very good compression/quality. Beware, though, that the Sorenson codec gives a blocky out put on large areas of flat colour, especially red.

Glen Elliott · June 9th, 2003, 12:38 PM

I own both a DVX100 and a GL-1 (which shares the XL-1s's "frame mode"). Regardless of what supposed frame rate it shoots at DV can only handle 60i/29.97fps. So treat it just as you would normal 29.97 interlaced footage. The only accpetion would be when shooting in 24p mode and your working with an NLE that can remove the pull-down to revert it "back" to true 24p.

Brad Simmons · June 9th, 2003, 01:07 PM

ok thanks guys. So if I want to export out my footage to After Effects or another program, it asks me to choose the field order. I'm still confused as to whether or not frame mode is actually interlaced or not. (seems to be debate there). My footage seems to be fine when I choose no fields, but I just wanted to make sure that was the case. thanks

Christopher Hughes · June 9th, 2003, 02:10 PM

Well I shoot a lot of stuff in frame mode (XL1s PAL) and use Premiere as of late. So do I still need to deinterlace? I tried a bit section deinterlaced and it seemed to get the jagged teeth even though it was done in frame mode.

I just edit and export to DV as normal. Is this correct? Or am I going to the bother of shooting in Fames mode for the NLE to mess it all up and interlace it.

Are there any special tweeks that need to be done for deinterlacing? or do I just put in on timeline for Standard PAL 16bit, edit and export to DV or save movie DV standard to export later???

Any words of wisdom or experience with XL1s frame mode would be very much appreciated!

Shane Duff · June 9th, 2003, 06:26 PM

Thanks ya'll, good things to know

Rob Lohman · June 10th, 2003, 04:50 AM

You can also start premiere in a special mode where it will remove
all user settings and reset everything back. I think you need to
hold ctrl+shift when starting Premiere. Try that.

Rob Lohman · June 10th, 2003, 06:57 AM

I have tried Cleaner XL on my PC just recently but I must say it
is a horrible product to and install. It had to install Real media
(yikes) and I can't get it to read my DV material (have to convert
it first).

For our Lady X Films I tried a bit with Vegas 4 and got some
nice results with:

- QuickTime 5 Sorenson 3 codec
- Max datarate at 75 (expirement with this)
- Natural keyframes
- 320x180
- Sound: IMU 4:1 codec @ 22.050 khz 16 bit stereo

With this setup I can compress PAL footage 25 fps for 7.5
minutes in 30 mb. If I go down to 15 fps I can get some more
but this can make a movie choppy.

Nigel Moore · June 10th, 2003, 09:50 AM

I agree that the XL install is less than ideal. Not only does it force the excreble Real onto your system, but it requires several other items to be installed, but kicks out when it finds them absent. Most installs will add the items that you need as you go along. Since they're included on the XL CD there really is no excuse. But, ther you go.

Phillip Sirois · June 10th, 2003, 09:38 PM

I would like to export to tape from Premiere and would like that to be done to Mini DV. Can a project be sent to a camera and be exported on long play without changing the export settings in Premiere?

Robert Poulton · June 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM

well if you want to export it to tape the easiest way I have found it to hook up your camera and then press play and then press record on the camera. It will export live to the camera, just make sure you prerender out your areas of the video that need to be rendered or it will appear with the red x over the top of it.

Rob:D

Adrian Douglas · June 11th, 2003, 06:42 AM

You shouldn't have to change any settings in Premiere. I imagine you'd just set your camera to long play. I'd test it out first though.

June 8th, 2003, 11:24 PM	#302
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	Editing frame mode in Premiere Quick question. I did a search and couldn't find anything specific. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough... I'm shooting a movie in frame mode with the Canon XL1s. When I export this movie, the default frame rate already is 29.97. So, since the Canon frame mode is 30fps, should I change it to 30fps? I'm confused because of this statement by Bill Ravens in another thread: ------------- "no matter how you slice it, the XL1s shoots in interlaced mode, ONLY. Normal mode is standard 60i with one field captured every 1/60 sec. Movie mode is interlaced with 2 fields captured simultaneaously every 1/30 sec." ------------- Question #1. So is frame mode still 29.97? Or is it really 30fps? Question #2. According to Bill's statment, frame mode is still interlaced, so should I export as lower fields first? Or do I export as "no fields"? Thanks in advance.

June 9th, 2003, 06:34 AM	#303
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	I can't help you with the frame rate question as my camera is PAL, but as for exporting it depends on your final destination. If it's for TV then "lower field first" is what I use. If it's for CD/Web then I deinterlace before export. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

June 10th, 2003, 04:50 AM	#310
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	You can also start premiere in a special mode where it will remove all user settings and reset everything back. I think you need to hold ctrl+shift when starting Premiere. Try that. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 10th, 2003, 06:57 AM	#311
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I have tried Cleaner XL on my PC just recently but I must say it is a horrible product to and install. It had to install Real media (yikes) and I can't get it to read my DV material (have to convert it first). For our Lady X Films I tried a bit with Vegas 4 and got some nice results with: - QuickTime 5 Sorenson 3 codec - Max datarate at 75 (expirement with this) - Natural keyframes - 320x180 - Sound: IMU 4:1 codec @ 22.050 khz 16 bit stereo With this setup I can compress PAL footage 25 fps for 7.5 minutes in 30 mb. If I go down to 15 fps I can get some more but this can make a movie choppy. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 10th, 2003, 09:38 PM	#313
Phillip Sirois Tourist Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sunnyvale, Texas Posts: 2	Exporting from Premiere I would like to export to tape from Premiere and would like that to be done to Mini DV. Can a project be sent to a camera and be exported on long play without changing the export settings in Premiere?

June 8th, 2003, 05:28 PM	#301
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	well all I am after is having pic smaller or perhaps just half screen with the rest filled with other video. Im not after any movement from left to right. Juts for both images set "solid" in their place with the movement of the film being the only movement. Hence I tried the motion thing, but the image moved right to left as the footage was panning left to right...so it looked very confusing and poor. So I'll give Ed's tip a try. Thanks for ur help. If anyone has any nice websites or step by step explanations I would be greatful. And one other thing...If you buy software hide the manual, cos u never know who's going to accidently put it in the bin (trashcan). Arrrrh!!!

June 9th, 2003, 11:00 AM	#304
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	When using Premiere to export footage for the web, you're only going to get Good Quality/Huge File size, or Low Quality/Small File size. It wasn't until I purchased the full version of Sorenson Squeeze (which includes the full Sorenson codec) that I got great results with low file size. The full version of Cleaner works better as well. You get more control and both offer 2 pass VBR which is going to get you the quality you see on those Apple trailers. (it also helps that most of those trailers are shot on 35mm ;) )

June 9th, 2003, 12:17 PM	#305
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	The Cleaner plug-in (Cleaner EZ) only comes with Premiere 6.0, where it formed the Save For web module. It was dropped in version 6.5. You can get good compression/quality with Cleaner EZ, but the default settings are preety crappy, and the app doesn't remember your custom settings. The full version of Cleaner (current version is XL for Windows) is very powerful. Coupled with the Sorenson Pro codec you get very good compression/quality. Beware, though, that the Sorenson codec gives a blocky out put on large areas of flat colour, especially red.

June 9th, 2003, 12:38 PM	#306
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	I own both a DVX100 and a GL-1 (which shares the XL-1s's "frame mode"). Regardless of what supposed frame rate it shoots at DV can only handle 60i/29.97fps. So treat it just as you would normal 29.97 interlaced footage. The only accpetion would be when shooting in 24p mode and your working with an NLE that can remove the pull-down to revert it "back" to true 24p.

June 9th, 2003, 01:07 PM	#307
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	ok thanks guys. So if I want to export out my footage to After Effects or another program, it asks me to choose the field order. I'm still confused as to whether or not frame mode is actually interlaced or not. (seems to be debate there). My footage seems to be fine when I choose no fields, but I just wanted to make sure that was the case. thanks

June 9th, 2003, 02:10 PM	#308
Christopher Hughes Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Sunderland, England (y Merida, Mexico) Posts: 269	Well I shoot a lot of stuff in frame mode (XL1s PAL) and use Premiere as of late. So do I still need to deinterlace? I tried a bit section deinterlaced and it seemed to get the jagged teeth even though it was done in frame mode. I just edit and export to DV as normal. Is this correct? Or am I going to the bother of shooting in Fames mode for the NLE to mess it all up and interlace it. Are there any special tweeks that need to be done for deinterlacing? or do I just put in on timeline for Standard PAL 16bit, edit and export to DV or save movie DV standard to export later??? Any words of wisdom or experience with XL1s frame mode would be very much appreciated!

June 9th, 2003, 06:26 PM	#309
Shane Duff New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Moreno Valley, CA Posts: 23	Thanks ya'll, good things to know

June 10th, 2003, 09:50 AM	#312
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	I agree that the XL install is less than ideal. Not only does it force the excreble Real onto your system, but it requires several other items to be installed, but kicks out when it finds them absent. Most installs will add the items that you need as you go along. Since they're included on the XL CD there really is no excuse. But, ther you go.

June 10th, 2003, 10:18 PM	#314
Robert Poulton Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 245	well if you want to export it to tape the easiest way I have found it to hook up your camera and then press play and then press record on the camera. It will export live to the camera, just make sure you prerender out your areas of the video that need to be rendered or it will appear with the red x over the top of it. Rob:D

June 11th, 2003, 06:42 AM	#315
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	You shouldn't have to change any settings in Premiere. I imagine you'd just set your camera to long play. I'd test it out first though. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors