Adobe Premiere & Premiere Pro discussions from 2005

Jeff Geissler · April 4th, 2005, 11:41 PM

Pardon my million questions to follow:

I understand the concept of progressive vs interlaced, but have a question regarding work flow...

I've been told in the past to capture non-interlaced and save interlacing for the final render...But if I shot in 60i and capture non-interlaced, does that work? I'm pretty sure it doesnt from my recent tests. So does that mean I should shoot originally in 30p and then export to 60i in final rendering in post?

In premiere pro theres a plugin for 'deinterlace'- cant remember the exact name of it... field interpolation? Whats the point of that?
I know for editing, special fx, and titling purposes, having no fields is ideal...but... I'm still confused.

When making files for a DVD--I've heard that having progressive footage makes for better compression results... My question is, should I use fields for final output to DVD? Does DVD inherantly have fields, or are most DVD's progressive? If a tv cant play progressive footage (since its inherantly based on fields)how does a progressive dvd play on a tv? Is it only possible through having a progressive scan tv or a digital connection?

And ultimately: Should I shoot in 30p over 60i for a DVD and/or Music Video release

I'll leave it there for now. I pretty much just need some clarifications to my current understandings... If I have made any incorrect assumptions in the above please correct me!

Thanks~
jeffGeissler
www.j-geissler.com

Chris Hurd · April 5th, 2005, 12:21 AM

Hi Jeff,

We have a dedictated forum for Premiere and another one for DVD. Try breaking your post into separete chunks and put them in those specific boards. Hope this helps,

Rob Lohman · April 5th, 2005, 04:46 AM

Jeff, to answer some of your questions.

You CANNOT capture DV (!) in either interlaced or non-interlaced.
It is captured AS IS, ALWAYS!

However, you have two options to set:

1. your project properties (either interlaced or progressive)

2. your export settings (same)

My rule of thumb is to keep everything in the same format throughout
YOUR ENTIRE workflow.

Decide whether you need/want interlaced or progressive and
stay with that. Generally you want interlaced only for news or
"real" looking footage or when your stuff gets broadcasted.

For other work almost everyone else seems to stick to progressive
(ie fictional work and perhaps documentaries etc.)

So if your end result should be interlaced then shoot in interlaced
and have Premiere setup to interlaced. Export an interlaced DVD
as well.

If you want progressive shoot in progressive, edit in progressive,
export in progressive and make a progressive DVD.

Pete Bauer · April 5th, 2005, 06:50 AM

Hi Jeff,

Since your questions are more "focused" on Adobe PPro tasks than on the XL2 in particular, I've moved your post over to the "Attend the World Premiere" forum, where you'll get more visibility.

If you have yet to start shooting your project with the XL2, Rob's advice is rock solid...shoot whatever you want your final output to be: 60i, 30p, 24p. If you already have the footage, is it 60i, 30p, or 24p? And what is your preference for how it will end up on the DVD? Here is a thread on DVD that might help a little:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36487

and here is page 3 of an interesting thread on 24p that I think might still be helpful even if you are shooting 30p:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...5&pagenumber=3

plus an incomplete thread on 24p fields that might help as backgrounder info:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=40508

Briefly before I leave for work...for output to DVD, you can also use 60i, 30p, or 24p. 60i (60 fields/second shot at a 1/60th interval) and 30p (60 fields/sec with both fields of a frame being shot at exactly the same time) both have 60 fields/sec recorded to the disc and are handled identically...each field is displayed in its 1/60th of a second. 24p footage is recorded as 48 fields a second with "Top Field First" and "Repeat First Field" flags encoded into the appropriate frames to do a Pull-Up (or is that a Pull-Down?) that any DVD player can read to re-create 60i for display on a standard TV set.

The field blending is a method of converting interlaced footage to progressive. There are a number of ways this is done. The simple way (which I believe is what PPro uses) is to throw away one field of a frame and just interpolate between the scan lines of the remaining field to replace the thrown away field. That naturally results in resolution loss and ideally would be avoided by shooting progressive if that's what you'll want in the end.

So let us know more about what your project and we'll try to fill in the blanks!

Andy Drefs · April 5th, 2005, 08:29 AM

Where am I at? I've got the camera hooked up to my system via firewire with the capture window open. I've tried every combination of settings I could think of and yet have not captured a thing. The device controls work just fine but no image shows up. Regular DV capture is no problem but as soon as I switch to HDV capture the line on the top of the window switches to "Device offline". I have made attempts with the iLink set to both DV & MPEG2. And yes, I have been to the Adobe discussion boards and they sent me here. All that they're telling me is that the Cineform plugin makes things better but PPro 1.5.1 ought to be able to do it on it's own.

Harry Lender · April 5th, 2005, 10:57 AM

Thanks everyone for your help. Looks as if procoder Express is the way to go. Looks as if it will do all that I want.
Harry

Ken Hodson · April 5th, 2005, 11:15 AM

SP2 installed?

Jeff Geissler · April 5th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Hey guys, thanks! I didnt quite know where to post, so I appreciate you puttin it where it belongs ;)

I shot in 60i. And its going to DVD.

So if I take the native interlaced footage into After effects, I want to render it back out with fields, correct? (So that any text etc will be interlaced as well...) Hope thats not a diffrent 'forum' question, heh.

Thanks for the clarifications thus far!

Great community, I love it.
~jeff

Jeremy Davidson · April 5th, 2005, 12:23 PM

This may be a late post for this thread, but I wanted to share a great little tip I discovered during my last multi-cam project. In Premiere, correct one of the clips as Glenn mentioned. Now, copy this clip to the clipboard. Right-click on another clip which needs correction and select "Paste Attributes." This will let you copy just the filter settings from the previous clip. Repeat for all remaining clips requiring correction (i.e. use "Paste Attributes Again").

Maybe they've come up with a better method for Premiere Pro (I'm still on 6.0 -- holding out as long as I can), but this was a huge timesaver for me (three cameras all requiring different correction and over 100 clips on the timeline).

Steven Gotz · April 5th, 2005, 12:38 PM

Sorry, I sent him here. I am a Sony owner and I figured you guys could help him better than I.

Is there something he needs to do, maybe in the camera, besides set the Premiere Pro capture to "HDV Device"?

David Newman · April 5th, 2005, 02:32 PM

Make sure the camera's MPEG/DV control is set to SW (in the menu) and the external switch is set to MPEG before connecting the camera (and before starting Premiere.) If XP service pack 2 is installed the drivers will automatically be recognized, otherwise the camera drivers take a lot of work to install (please install SP2.) Now Premiere 1.5.1 can be started and select the 1280x720 HDV editing mode. At this point capture should simply work in HDV mode.

Jeff Geissler · April 5th, 2005, 06:41 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Jeff, to answer some of your questions.

You CANNOT capture DV (!) in either interlaced or non-interlaced.
It is captured AS IS, ALWAYS!
-->>>

When I set capture settings in Premiere there is an option for 'upper' or 'lower' or 'none' field capture. What is DV's native interlace setting? Why would someone set it different then?

Sounds I'm overconfusing something thats not so complicated. So just a little more clarification and I think I'll get it...

Pete Bauer · April 5th, 2005, 09:48 PM

DV is lower field first. Here's a thread that covers field order:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36380

What I think Rob is getting at is that capture just adds an AVI (or QT) "wrapper" to the DV data stream that is captured, but the datastream itself is not changed. Therefore when you capture DV footage, it will be interlaced, lower field first. Once on the timeline in PPro, you can choose to field blend and/or export to a file format that allows true progressive images. But the interpretation required to create the progressive frames will result in at least some resolution loss.

If you've shot 60i and intend for it to be transcoded and burned to DVD in 60i, I think most folks would agree that you'll want to keep your entire workflow 60i. When you transcode to MPEG2 for authoring the DVD, the Adobe Media Encoder that all the Adobe applications share will default to the correct field order (someone correct me if that's mistaken). You could even go to 24p, but again, with some resolution loss due to field interpolations.

Andrei Petrik · April 5th, 2005, 10:16 PM

Hi,
The issue that i am having is that i cannot capture more than 55 mins of footage in Ppro1.5

I used batch capturewith had 1hr 2mins, of total time and it only captured 54mins.
then i used Capture Tape button and it captured only 34mins.
I didn't get any erros msgs or nything, it simply said capture is complete.
...and I have enough hard drive space.

Any suggestions? or is there a limit in Ppro?

Andrew Sohn · April 5th, 2005, 11:33 PM

I've only been using Premiere for the last 2 weeks, so i'm somewhat of a beginner. I'm also fairly new to videography in general. I just recently started using a VX-2000 that was supplied to me. I shot alot of video, and it came out very nice, but it is very white. My questions are:

1) In the future, how wouldi lower the whiteness on the vx-2000?
2) Now that i have all of this white material (it's not so bad, but it is somewhat annoying), how can i make it look more presentable and professional in Premiere, using the basic tools (as in no plugins)

Also, another question:
I used autofocus on the camera. When shooting some interview scenes shot outdoors, the interviewee and the background both recorded in full focus. I would like the trees in back of the interviewee to be a bit out of focus, while the interviewee is in focus. Is there any way i can accomplish this in premiere?

April 4th, 2005, 11:41 PM	#616
Jeff Geissler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 55	30p vs 60i, Field interpolation, pjct workflow, DVD's... Pardon my million questions to follow: I understand the concept of progressive vs interlaced, but have a question regarding work flow... I've been told in the past to capture non-interlaced and save interlacing for the final render...But if I shot in 60i and capture non-interlaced, does that work? I'm pretty sure it doesnt from my recent tests. So does that mean I should shoot originally in 30p and then export to 60i in final rendering in post? In premiere pro theres a plugin for 'deinterlace'- cant remember the exact name of it... field interpolation? Whats the point of that? I know for editing, special fx, and titling purposes, having no fields is ideal...but... I'm still confused. When making files for a DVD--I've heard that having progressive footage makes for better compression results... My question is, should I use fields for final output to DVD? Does DVD inherantly have fields, or are most DVD's progressive? If a tv cant play progressive footage (since its inherantly based on fields)how does a progressive dvd play on a tv? Is it only possible through having a progressive scan tv or a digital connection? And ultimately: Should I shoot in 30p over 60i for a DVD and/or Music Video release I'll leave it there for now. I pretty much just need some clarifications to my current understandings... If I have made any incorrect assumptions in the above please correct me! Thanks~ jeffGeissler www.j-geissler.com

April 5th, 2005, 12:21 AM	#617
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Jeff, We have a dedictated forum for Premiere and another one for DVD. Try breaking your post into separete chunks and put them in those specific boards. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 5th, 2005, 04:46 AM	#618
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Jeff, to answer some of your questions. You CANNOT capture DV (!) in either interlaced or non-interlaced. It is captured AS IS, ALWAYS! However, you have two options to set: 1. your project properties (either interlaced or progressive) 2. your export settings (same) My rule of thumb is to keep everything in the same format throughout YOUR ENTIRE workflow. Decide whether you need/want interlaced or progressive and stay with that. Generally you want interlaced only for news or "real" looking footage or when your stuff gets broadcasted. For other work almost everyone else seems to stick to progressive (ie fictional work and perhaps documentaries etc.) So if your end result should be interlaced then shoot in interlaced and have Premiere setup to interlaced. Export an interlaced DVD as well. If you want progressive shoot in progressive, edit in progressive, export in progressive and make a progressive DVD. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 5th, 2005, 06:50 AM	#619
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hi Jeff, Since your questions are more "focused" on Adobe PPro tasks than on the XL2 in particular, I've moved your post over to the "Attend the World Premiere" forum, where you'll get more visibility. If you have yet to start shooting your project with the XL2, Rob's advice is rock solid...shoot whatever you want your final output to be: 60i, 30p, 24p. If you already have the footage, is it 60i, 30p, or 24p? And what is your preference for how it will end up on the DVD? Here is a thread on DVD that might help a little: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36487 and here is page 3 of an interesting thread on 24p that I think might still be helpful even if you are shooting 30p: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...5&pagenumber=3 plus an incomplete thread on 24p fields that might help as backgrounder info: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=40508 Briefly before I leave for work...for output to DVD, you can also use 60i, 30p, or 24p. 60i (60 fields/second shot at a 1/60th interval) and 30p (60 fields/sec with both fields of a frame being shot at exactly the same time) both have 60 fields/sec recorded to the disc and are handled identically...each field is displayed in its 1/60th of a second. 24p footage is recorded as 48 fields a second with "Top Field First" and "Repeat First Field" flags encoded into the appropriate frames to do a Pull-Up (or is that a Pull-Down?) that any DVD player can read to re-create 60i for display on a standard TV set. The field blending is a method of converting interlaced footage to progressive. There are a number of ways this is done. The simple way (which I believe is what PPro uses) is to throw away one field of a frame and just interpolate between the scan lines of the remaining field to replace the thrown away field. That naturally results in resolution loss and ideally would be avoided by shooting progressive if that's what you'll want in the end. So let us know more about what your project and we'll try to fill in the blanks! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 5th, 2005, 08:29 AM	#620
Andy Drefs New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 9	Where am I at? I've got the camera hooked up to my system via firewire with the capture window open. I've tried every combination of settings I could think of and yet have not captured a thing. The device controls work just fine but no image shows up. Regular DV capture is no problem but as soon as I switch to HDV capture the line on the top of the window switches to "Device offline". I have made attempts with the iLink set to both DV & MPEG2. And yes, I have been to the Adobe discussion boards and they sent me here. All that they're telling me is that the Cineform plugin makes things better but PPro 1.5.1 ought to be able to do it on it's own. __________________ Andy Drefs A great face for radio!

April 5th, 2005, 10:57 AM	#621
Harry Lender Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: St Charles, Mo Posts: 261	encoding software Thanks everyone for your help. Looks as if procoder Express is the way to go. Looks as if it will do all that I want. Harry

April 5th, 2005, 11:15 AM	#622
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	SP2 installed? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

April 5th, 2005, 12:12 PM	#623
Jeff Geissler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 55	Hey guys, thanks! I didnt quite know where to post, so I appreciate you puttin it where it belongs ;) I shot in 60i. And its going to DVD. So if I take the native interlaced footage into After effects, I want to render it back out with fields, correct? (So that any text etc will be interlaced as well...) Hope thats not a diffrent 'forum' question, heh. Thanks for the clarifications thus far! Great community, I love it. ~jeff

April 5th, 2005, 12:23 PM	#624
Jeremy Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Eau Claire, WI Posts: 167	This may be a late post for this thread, but I wanted to share a great little tip I discovered during my last multi-cam project. In Premiere, correct one of the clips as Glenn mentioned. Now, copy this clip to the clipboard. Right-click on another clip which needs correction and select "Paste Attributes." This will let you copy just the filter settings from the previous clip. Repeat for all remaining clips requiring correction (i.e. use "Paste Attributes Again"). Maybe they've come up with a better method for Premiere Pro (I'm still on 6.0 -- holding out as long as I can), but this was a huge timesaver for me (three cameras all requiring different correction and over 100 clips on the timeline). __________________ There's no way for you to know if what I'm saying is true unless you know what the truth is, and there's no way for you to know what the truth is unless there is a truth that you can know. -- Frank Peretti

April 5th, 2005, 12:38 PM	#625
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Sorry, I sent him here. I am a Sony owner and I figured you guys could help him better than I. Is there something he needs to do, maybe in the camera, besides set the Premiere Pro capture to "HDV Device"? __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

April 5th, 2005, 02:32 PM	#626
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Make sure the camera's MPEG/DV control is set to SW (in the menu) and the external switch is set to MPEG before connecting the camera (and before starting Premiere.) If XP service pack 2 is installed the drivers will automatically be recognized, otherwise the camera drivers take a lot of work to install (please install SP2.) Now Premiere 1.5.1 can be started and select the 1280x720 HDV editing mode. At this point capture should simply work in HDV mode. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

April 5th, 2005, 06:41 PM	#627
Jeff Geissler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 55	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Jeff, to answer some of your questions. You CANNOT capture DV (!) in either interlaced or non-interlaced. It is captured AS IS, ALWAYS! -->>> When I set capture settings in Premiere there is an option for 'upper' or 'lower' or 'none' field capture. What is DV's native interlace setting? Why would someone set it different then? Sounds I'm overconfusing something thats not so complicated. So just a little more clarification and I think I'll get it...

April 5th, 2005, 09:48 PM	#628
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	DV is lower field first. Here's a thread that covers field order: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=36380 What I think Rob is getting at is that capture just adds an AVI (or QT) "wrapper" to the DV data stream that is captured, but the datastream itself is not changed. Therefore when you capture DV footage, it will be interlaced, lower field first. Once on the timeline in PPro, you can choose to field blend and/or export to a file format that allows true progressive images. But the interpretation required to create the progressive frames will result in at least some resolution loss. If you've shot 60i and intend for it to be transcoded and burned to DVD in 60i, I think most folks would agree that you'll want to keep your entire workflow 60i. When you transcode to MPEG2 for authoring the DVD, the Adobe Media Encoder that all the Adobe applications share will default to the correct field order (someone correct me if that's mistaken). You could even go to 24p, but again, with some resolution loss due to field interpolations. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 5th, 2005, 10:16 PM	#629
Andrei Petrik Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 45	Capture Limit? ... Cannot Capture more than 55mins! Hi, The issue that i am having is that i cannot capture more than 55 mins of footage in Ppro1.5 I used batch capturewith had 1hr 2mins, of total time and it only captured 54mins. then i used Capture Tape button and it captured only 34mins. I didn't get any erros msgs or nything, it simply said capture is complete. ...and I have enough hard drive space. Any suggestions? or is there a limit in Ppro? __________________ XL1s - P4 2.53Ghz - 1GB RAM - DVstorm2 - PPro 1.5 - AE 6.5

April 5th, 2005, 11:33 PM	#630
Andrew Sohn Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Jersey - NYC Posts: 26	Two newbie questions I've only been using Premiere for the last 2 weeks, so i'm somewhat of a beginner. I'm also fairly new to videography in general. I just recently started using a VX-2000 that was supplied to me. I shot alot of video, and it came out very nice, but it is very white. My questions are: 1) In the future, how wouldi lower the whiteness on the vx-2000? 2) Now that i have all of this white material (it's not so bad, but it is somewhat annoying), how can i make it look more presentable and professional in Premiere, using the basic tools (as in no plugins) Also, another question: I used autofocus on the camera. When shooting some interview scenes shot outdoors, the interviewee and the background both recorded in full focus. I would like the trees in back of the interviewee to be a bit out of focus, while the interviewee is in focus. Is there any way i can accomplish this in premiere?