Adobe Premiere & Premiere Pro discussions from 2005

Roger Averdahl · December 15th, 2005, 04:10 AM

If you are using Premiere Pro, go to Project > Project Settings > General and click on Playback Settings . Under Audio Playback, change to Play Audio on Audio Hardware

/Roger

Ben Forman · December 15th, 2005, 04:29 AM

Guys and Gals

A marketing guy says one of my videos looks dark on his laptop, it looks fine on my premiere machine and on my own laptop. Is it possible to use the vectorscopes to check my black level and other brightness data so I can check scientifically if my video is "dark".

Cheers

Ben

Joshua Provost · December 15th, 2005, 09:31 AM

Ben,

The Y/C Waveform would be the one to check. However, this would hardly be conclusive. You could have legal black and white levels, but have a low overall gamma, and the footage would appear dark or underexposed.

However, the Premiere Pro scopes are dubious, in any case. They are labeled in IRE, which is an analog, not a digital measurement (How do they do that? They can't!). It has a switchable 7.5 IRE Steup setting that just manipulates the scope and not the footage, although there is no Setup in digital video. It's all very misleading.

Are your computer monitors calibrated? To what standard? Are you working with a calibrated NTSC monitor, as well? You can't really trust a laptop display, only a calibrated NTSC monitor. That's what your footage will really look like, in any case.

Josh

Rick Step · December 15th, 2005, 09:34 AM

Here's a question that's probably already been answered but for some reason ever since the website changed, I can't use the search function here. I click search and nothing happens...anyway -

I've got a bunch of projects to do where I will have equal parts 24p footage and 60i footage which will need to go in the same timeline. If I start a 24p project in premiere, then I have to render all the 60i...same thing in reverse. Is there a way to fix this so I can work with both types of footage in the timeline without having to render all of it? Thanks again...

Rick

Christopher Lefchik · December 15th, 2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Provost

Ben,
However, the Premiere Pro scopes are dubious, in any case. They are labeled in IRE, which is an analog, not a digital measurement (How do they do that? They can't!). It has a switchable 7.5 IRE Steup setting that just manipulates the scope and not the footage, although there is no Setup in digital video. It's all very misleading.

The fact that they are labeled with IRE doesn't make them any less accurate. Just make sure the 7.5 IRE setup switch is off. I don't think any of us would color correct differently depending on what the unit of measurements are labeled in the waveform.

Joshua Provost · December 15th, 2005, 10:13 AM

Christopher,

Please see this thread and this article. It is inaccurate, because it is not possible to measure IRE (a measure of voltage) based on digital data.

It would seem that digital value 16 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 0 (with the Setup checkbox unchecked), and digital value 235 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 100. Is it just linear between those values? It's not really documented.

Josh

Paul Cuoco · December 15th, 2005, 12:23 PM

The long and short of it, I don't think there's a way around rendering, but if you figure something out let me know. I've been looking for a solution also. I have a similar project (a short film) that I'm editing where 1/2 the footage is in 60i and half in 24P.

Originally it was all supposed to be 60i and then converted to 24P using Magic Bullet, but after filming the first scene the production was able to get a new camera and shot the rest natively in 24P. Since the footage in my case are completely different scenes, I'm editing them in different projects. One 60i and one 24P project. When I'm done with the 60i material, I'll convert it to 24P with MB and then import that into final a 24P timeline.

This at least lets me edit and fine tune each scene without rendering, but doesn't allow me to see the whole project until going through this process. But it's the best workflow I could figure, and it certainly beats converting and rendering the entire short film.

Hope this was useful.

Joshua Provost · December 15th, 2005, 03:50 PM

Rick,

How did you shoot your 24p? On which camera, in which mode?

If you shot in 24p Standard, which is a 60i stream with 2:3 pulldown inline, then you can just edit that and your 60i on a 60i timeline. Render out 60i. Your all set, it will edit right in.

If you shot 24p Advanced, with 2:3:3:2 footage, that won't look right in 60i. You can use DVFilm Maker to remove the Advanced pulldown and add Standard pulldown (two steps, unfortunately), and then edit in a 60i timeline with the rest of your footage. Actually, you can probably do the pulldown conversion in Premiere, just open the 24p file and do an Export/Movie, and select the right format.

Josh

Christopher Lefchik · December 15th, 2005, 05:30 PM

Joshua,

I understand entirely that IRE is an analog measurement. We've been over this before in this forum (I've participated in at least one discussion on the matter, and have read Graeme's article).

My point is that labeling the grid on the waveform in IRE units has no effect on what is actually being displayed on the waveform. The waveform is going to measure and display the same waveform from the video footage regardless.

As I noted in the discussion in which I participated, on all software waveform scopes I've seen so far, IRE or no IRE, a 0-100 scale is still used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Provost

It would seem that digital value 16 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 0 (with the Setup checkbox unchecked), and digital value 235 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 100. Is it just linear between those values? It's not really documented.

I haven't tested if it is linear, but here is a test I performed from the thread above:

"I created a graphic in Photoshop with black sections at 0,0,0 and 16,16,16, and white sections at 255,255,255 and 235,235,235. Both Premiere Pro's and Color Finesse's scopes (in After Effects) gave identical results. 0,0,0 showed as 0 IRE (or %, if you wish); 16,16,16 about 7.5 IRE; 235,235,235 as 92 IRE; and 255,255,255 as 100 IRE. Apparently, both Premiere Pro and After Effects convert the 0-255 RGB space to the 16-235 video space, just like Final Cut does (see the section titled "Still Image Import" near the end of Graeme's article)."

Christopher Lefchik · December 15th, 2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Provost

It would seem that digital value 16 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 0 (with the Setup checkbox unchecked), and digital value 235 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 100. Is it just linear between those values? It's not really documented.

Inspired by your question, I just conducted a test to see if the value is linear between those values. I created two images in Photoshop. One was a gradient from 0-255 on a 50% grey background, and the other was a gradient from 16-235 on a 50% grey background. I then imported both into Premiere Pro and examined them on the waveform monitor, with the 7.5 setup display option off. You can see the results for yourself by looking at the images linked below.

0-255 Gradient on a Premiere Pro 1.5.1 waveform scope

16-235 Gradient on a Premiere Pro 1.5.1 waveform scope

Joshua Provost · December 16th, 2005, 12:16 AM

Christopher,

Nice test. I'm a long-time (long, long-time) Premiere user. It just bugs me that you have to reverse engineer the scopes to figure out what's going on. And I've seen video with illegal blacks and super whites go below 0 and above 100. Would be nice if they took that Setup checkbox out. Not sure what purpose it serves.

Anyway, we got way off the original topic. Whoops.

Josh

Christopher Lefchik · December 16th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Provost

Would be nice if they took that Setup checkbox out. Not sure what purpose it serves.

The option to display black on the waveform with or without 7.5 IRE setup was a user requested feature after Premiere Pro 1 was released. I believe Premiere Pro 1's waveform may have displayed the video with blacks at 7.5 IRE (perhaps an effort to keep those editors who were used to the analog world from messing up their DV video? Should the waveform have displayed black at 0 IRE, I can imagine an analog editor seeing his blacks at 0 IRE and raising them all to 7.5). But there was griping on the Adobe Premiere Pro User to User forum about the default, and so the switch was added in Premiere Pro 1.5.

In any case, the option only changes how blacks are displayed on the waveform. It doesn't change the video signal itself in any way. Personally, I'd rather have the option than not have it. The more customization options, the better.

James Sidney · December 16th, 2005, 04:13 PM

I'm looking at purchasing an audio hardware controller that will allow me to adjust volume/pan/eq manually:

http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

I'm confident it will work with Audition, but can anyone tell me if it will work in Premiere 1.5.1?

Failing that, is there a way to open up the audio tracks from Premiere in Audition in multi-track view, not as an exported audio from video file.

Thanks,

James

James Emory · December 16th, 2005, 05:52 PM

I have had no issues with Premiere 6.5 and have used the export movie feature many times with no issues until last night. I had successfully created several Quicktime files and shutdown for the night. Today when going back in and choosing export movie, Premiere just crashed with that Do you want to report errors message. I figured it was just a typical freeze up and after restarting Premiere it would work again. So I restarted Premeire and tried it again the same thing happened. Then I restarted my PC and it happened again. After several attempts, I decided it was time to do the inevitable, uninstall and then reinstall Premiere. I did that hoping it was the fix. It wasn't. It still crashes when choosing export movie. Is there a recent issue that I should know about? I am able to open and use the MPEG encoder and Windows Media Encoder just fine but I need the export movie feature bad. Help!

James Emory · December 16th, 2005, 11:47 PM

Well, I can't believe it. Just before I was about to give up, I found a few posts on the Adobe Premiere board about this issue of receiving an error screen and then shutdown when trying to use the export movie option. Apparently, it is also happpening when using the MPEG export option as well. After uninstalling and reinstalling Premiere, which didn't work, I found that the fix is to simply press and hold CTRL and Shift together while opening/loading Premiere. This will reset Premiere and you will lose all settings and preferences but the export movie option will work again! :)

December 15th, 2005, 04:29 AM	#2042
Ben Forman New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 14	premiere 1.5.1 scopes Guys and Gals A marketing guy says one of my videos looks dark on his laptop, it looks fine on my premiere machine and on my own laptop. Is it possible to use the vectorscopes to check my black level and other brightness data so I can check scientifically if my video is "dark". Cheers Ben __________________ ben forman www.benforman.co.uk

December 15th, 2005, 09:31 AM	#2043
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Ben, The Y/C Waveform would be the one to check. However, this would hardly be conclusive. You could have legal black and white levels, but have a low overall gamma, and the footage would appear dark or underexposed. However, the Premiere Pro scopes are dubious, in any case. They are labeled in IRE, which is an analog, not a digital measurement (How do they do that? They can't!). It has a switchable 7.5 IRE Steup setting that just manipulates the scope and not the footage, although there is no Setup in digital video. It's all very misleading. Are your computer monitors calibrated? To what standard? Are you working with a calibrated NTSC monitor, as well? You can't really trust a laptop display, only a calibrated NTSC monitor. That's what your footage will really look like, in any case. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

December 15th, 2005, 09:34 AM	#2044
Rick Step Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 62	24p and 60i footage in same Project Here's a question that's probably already been answered but for some reason ever since the website changed, I can't use the search function here. I click search and nothing happens...anyway - I've got a bunch of projects to do where I will have equal parts 24p footage and 60i footage which will need to go in the same timeline. If I start a 24p project in premiere, then I have to render all the 60i...same thing in reverse. Is there a way to fix this so I can work with both types of footage in the timeline without having to render all of it? Thanks again... Rick

December 15th, 2005, 10:13 AM	#2046
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Christopher, Please see this thread and this article. It is inaccurate, because it is not possible to measure IRE (a measure of voltage) based on digital data. It would seem that digital value 16 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 0 (with the Setup checkbox unchecked), and digital value 235 corresponds to Premiere's IRE 100. Is it just linear between those values? It's not really documented. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

December 15th, 2005, 03:50 PM	#2048
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Rick, How did you shoot your 24p? On which camera, in which mode? If you shot in 24p Standard, which is a 60i stream with 2:3 pulldown inline, then you can just edit that and your 60i on a 60i timeline. Render out 60i. Your all set, it will edit right in. If you shot 24p Advanced, with 2:3:3:2 footage, that won't look right in 60i. You can use DVFilm Maker to remove the Advanced pulldown and add Standard pulldown (two steps, unfortunately), and then edit in a 60i timeline with the rest of your footage. Actually, you can probably do the pulldown conversion in Premiere, just open the 24p file and do an Export/Movie, and select the right format. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

December 15th, 2005, 04:10 AM	#2041
Roger Averdahl Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stockholm - Sweden Posts: 344	If you are using Premiere Pro, go to Project > Project Settings > General and click on Playback Settings . Under Audio Playback, change to Play Audio on Audio Hardware /Roger

December 15th, 2005, 12:23 PM	#2047
Paul Cuoco Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 93	The long and short of it, I don't think there's a way around rendering, but if you figure something out let me know. I've been looking for a solution also. I have a similar project (a short film) that I'm editing where 1/2 the footage is in 60i and half in 24P. Originally it was all supposed to be 60i and then converted to 24P using Magic Bullet, but after filming the first scene the production was able to get a new camera and shot the rest natively in 24P. Since the footage in my case are completely different scenes, I'm editing them in different projects. One 60i and one 24P project. When I'm done with the 60i material, I'll convert it to 24P with MB and then import that into final a 24P timeline. This at least lets me edit and fine tune each scene without rendering, but doesn't allow me to see the whole project until going through this process. But it's the best workflow I could figure, and it certainly beats converting and rendering the entire short film. Hope this was useful.

December 16th, 2005, 12:16 AM	#2051
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Christopher, Nice test. I'm a long-time (long, long-time) Premiere user. It just bugs me that you have to reverse engineer the scopes to figure out what's going on. And I've seen video with illegal blacks and super whites go below 0 and above 100. Would be nice if they took that Setup checkbox out. Not sure what purpose it serves. Anyway, we got way off the original topic. Whoops. Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

December 16th, 2005, 04:13 PM	#2053
James Sidney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 44	audio hardware controller I'm looking at purchasing an audio hardware controller that will allow me to adjust volume/pan/eq manually: http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG I'm confident it will work with Audition, but can anyone tell me if it will work in Premiere 1.5.1? Failing that, is there a way to open up the audio tracks from Premiere in Audition in multi-track view, not as an exported audio from video file. Thanks, James

December 16th, 2005, 05:52 PM	#2054
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Export Movie option suddenly crashes Premiere 6.5, why? I have had no issues with Premiere 6.5 and have used the export movie feature many times with no issues until last night. I had successfully created several Quicktime files and shutdown for the night. Today when going back in and choosing export movie, Premiere just crashed with that Do you want to report errors message. I figured it was just a typical freeze up and after restarting Premiere it would work again. So I restarted Premeire and tried it again the same thing happened. Then I restarted my PC and it happened again. After several attempts, I decided it was time to do the inevitable, uninstall and then reinstall Premiere. I did that hoping it was the fix. It wasn't. It still crashes when choosing export movie. Is there a recent issue that I should know about? I am able to open and use the MPEG encoder and Windows Media Encoder just fine but I need the export movie feature bad. Help!

December 16th, 2005, 11:47 PM	#2055
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Issue Resolved! Well, I can't believe it. Just before I was about to give up, I found a few posts on the Adobe Premiere board about this issue of receiving an error screen and then shutdown when trying to use the export movie option. Apparently, it is also happpening when using the MPEG export option as well. After uninstalling and reinstalling Premiere, which didn't work, I found that the fix is to simply press and hold CTRL and Shift together while opening/loading Premiere. This will reset Premiere and you will lose all settings and preferences but the export movie option will work again! :)