Adobe encoder (CS4) crashing my PC - no idea why

Steve Kalle · November 20th, 2009, 05:04 PM

Its not the cooler. Its either a bad thermal sensor on the motherboard or a bad chip. I have read about many X58 boards with thermal sensor issues so contact Gigabyte for help and/or replacement.

For that other 10k rpm (I'm assuming a Velociraptor), I would return it or sell it and get an Intel X 25 80GB G2 SSD. I went from 4 74GB Raptors in Raid to the Intel X 25 for the OS and programs and its insane how much faster the SSD is. Booting takes seconds; as soon as you see your desktop, you are ready to go; Photoshop opens in 2 seconds. Plus, no moving parts to break.

Harm Millaard · November 20th, 2009, 05:36 PM

I wasn't aware of those problems, but it makes much more sense than the ridiculous temperature readings the OP is getting.

Steve Kalle · November 20th, 2009, 11:35 PM

Unfortunately, I must add my experience tonight with the exact same problem. AME encoded the first video which took 18 minutes and was encoding the 2nd video. I started to play the encoded video and it BSOD'd me with the same page fault error. I am currently encoding the 2nd video and opened CoreTemp .99.5 to check the temps. All 4 cores are hovering at 71 C with 100% CPU load.

Harm, could you please use CoreTemp and tell me what you are getting under full load? FYI, I have the i7 920 at stock clock with a Zalman 9500. I just got the Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 in hopes of coming close to Harm's overclock but haven't installed it yet. And Harm, is your i7 920 a revision "D0"?

Harm Millaard · November 21st, 2009, 04:05 AM

Steve,

While encoding a HDV timeline to MPEG2-DVD with maximum render quality on and running the i7-920 C revision at a clock speed of 3.6 GHz, I get these results after about one hour running under full load. After stopping the encoding, the temps very quickly return to around 36 C.

Syeed Ali · November 21st, 2009, 05:46 AM

Thanks for all the help guys.

Looks like it's the cooler.

I used a different thermal compound and it's reduced the temp considerably. Still not as low as it should be though.

Having looked at the Akasa cooler, I think the problem is that the copper conducter is not fully flush with the base. I'm going to get another cooler and compare.

Will also check the motherboard as well.

Harm Millaard · November 21st, 2009, 05:59 AM

Syeed,

This looks completely normal. Maybe the different cooling paste makes the necessary difference. It is a sizable difference with earlier results. Much improved.

Syeed Ali · November 21st, 2009, 07:42 AM

Just encoded a video now and no crash. So looks like it's all sorted now.

Can't believe I wasted so much time trying to fix it just for it to be the thermal stuff.

The one that didn't work is the "Akasa thermal adhesive tape". Avoid at all cost!!!

Once again thanks for all your help guys.

Steve Kalle · November 21st, 2009, 12:58 PM

Wow, I didn't think the thermal paste/tape could make that much of a difference. I have always used Arctic Thermal compound and remember reading that it only provides about a 5 C degree reduction under load compared to generic paste.

In my own testing when I first got an Intel Q6600 and Zalman 9500, I tried different setups with the fans to get the lowest temp possible. I noticed that it takes a day or two for the thermal paste to 'settle' in and provide maximum conductivity.

Harm, my revision is the most recent but your temps aren't much higher than mine. You are using the big Noctua, right? (I posted the model I have yet to install but it should be the same as ours)

One more thing: any chance you have or could write an overclock guide for the i7? I am used to OC'ing the prior 775 chips but there is so much new and different with the i7's settings.

Thanks

Harm Millaard · November 21st, 2009, 01:58 PM

Steve,

This is for ASUS P6T boards, but can also apply to other X58 boards. The BIOS settings may have different names however.

When overclocking, most of us here, editors, have only ONE thing in mind: STABILITY!!!

We are not trying to get the highest benchmark scores, even though they are nice, we want to be able to edit and encode reliably, even under long load times with large projects. So what most of us are interested in is what settings in the BIOS can we safely make that allows us to run reliably for very long times, even 24 hours encodes, and still get good (notice, not BEST) performance, without shortening the longevity of our system in any significant way.

Overclocking means that you run your system harder than it was designed and approved for. Just as a comparison, when you walk around the block, you will not get into a sweat, but running around the block several times, you may start to sweat, depending on your condition. Same with a PC, so cooling is important. What causes the temperature rise in computers? Simple, the increased wattage required to run at higher speeds in the same way you burn more calories when running instead of walking. This effectively means you have to balance the increased wattage in your PC with the temperatures inside. Somewhat like Louis Armstrong once said: "Everybody has a given number of heartbeats and I'm not going to waste them on jogging". (Obesitas was never a big concern to him. Maybe it should have been.)

The i7 CPU is well known for its overclock capability. The 920 entry model has a clock frequency of 2.66 GHZ, which is achieved by a BCLK setting of 133 and a multiplier of 20. 20 x 133 = 2666 MHz or 2.66 GHz. At this standard setting the TDP (Thermal Design Power) is 130 W. When you enable Turbo mode in the BIOS of your mobo, the multiplier can vary between 12 and 21, depending on CPU load, so effectively the CPU clock can vary between 1596 (12 x 133) MHz and 2793 (21 x 133) MHz. The CPU will throttle down to save energy to the lower multiplier when idle and throttle back up when under load.

When you experiment with different BCLK (base clock) settings, you will find that the number 172 for BCLK will increase your clock frequency to 2064 (12 x 172) MHz when idle and 3612 (21 x 172) MHz under load. With all settings on AUTO in the BIOS for the different voltages, you will see that the CPU voltage rises to 1.272V (which is well below the Intel maximum of 1.5V for this CPU) and TDP increases to 152 W, up from the standard 130 W. You will also see an increase in CPU temperature and with other components, so you have to watch those carefully, especially if you use the very mediocre stock Intel CPU cooler. You will also notice that the RAM voltage remains constant at 1.5V

I have experimented with a lot of different settings, using BCLK at 183, 192, 202 and other settings, but always leaving all voltage regulations on auto to start with, testing with demanding applications like Prime95 and the PassMark system benchmark to test for stability, watching for the voltages and temperatures of CPU and other components. When I found a reasonably stable setting, I increased the memory voltage up to 1.65V to see if that gave improved stability for a longer time.

In the end I decided on some very simple standard settings for my system that can hold up very reliably under duress:

BCLK at 172, CPU voltage at 1.275V, PCI bridge at 110%, video card at 800 MHz GPU and video memory at 1100 MHz, RAM on auto voltage at 1.5V, but DDR3-Frequency at 1376 MHz (I use DDR3-1333 sticks).

In case I am pressed for time I can easily increase my BCLK settings to 180 to further OC my system, if the need arises, or even further, but 180 BCLK is the highest setting I can achieve without raising voltages.

Like some doctors say, streching your legs is healthy, but don't overdo it.

PS: Real overclockers/tweakers will easily find better settings, but this suffices for a senior hobbyist like me.

Marty Baggen · November 21st, 2009, 07:49 PM

Harm... it's tremendous to have a resource such as yourself that bridges the significant gap between editor and computer tech. I'm learning a lot from your posts and the varied exchanges here, and elsewhere... namely your opinions on RAID. Good stuff.

Harm Millaard · November 22nd, 2009, 06:39 AM

Marty,

Thanks for the compliment.

You may have seen this link before and if that is the case my apologies, but if not, it may be interesting to you: Adobe Forums: How to get the best from a PC? Some...

Nearly 50,000 reads on the three articles show that some people found it interesting. Maybe the same applies to you.

Syeed Ali · November 22nd, 2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harm Millaard

Nearly 50,000 reads on the three articles show that some people found it interesting. Maybe the same applies to you.

I'm one of them and I look forward to reading more articles from you.

When are you migrating to Windows 7?

Harm Millaard · November 22nd, 2009, 09:11 AM

I already have, to Win7-64 Pro, fresh install and it is around 10% faster than Vista. It looks more stable and has a smaller footprint. I currently have Win7-64 Pro, CS4 Master Collection, and all my usual accessories and plug-ins installed, MB Looks, SA Color Finesse, Surcode, Pixelan, and the like and it only requires 30 GB of disk space. It sure looks good.

You can see the results on PPBM4 home page where you see that with a 5% lower clock speed I still got a 5% better benchmark result.

Look for 'Harm's Beast' (Bill invented that name)

Jason McDonald · December 15th, 2009, 11:10 PM

The maximum operating temperature of an AMD processor is determined by the processor's
Ordering Part Number (OPN). The OPN is located on the top of the processor.
Example: A X1800 D M S 3 C
The temperature is indicated by the third character from the right in the OPN and is denoted by
an S, T or V character. Current data for the AMD AthlonTM XP processor identifies the maximum
operating temperature as: V=85ºC, T= 90ºC, S = 95ºC.

Syeed Ali · January 9th, 2010, 09:05 AM

Well, everything is working fine since I sorted out the cooling. Thanks again for the help.

November 21st, 2009, 04:05 AM	#19
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Steve, While encoding a HDV timeline to MPEG2-DVD with maximum render quality on and running the i7-920 C revision at a clock speed of 3.6 GHz, I get these results after about one hour running under full load. After stopping the encoding, the temps very quickly return to around 36 C. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Harm Millaard; November 21st, 2009 at 01:18 PM.

November 21st, 2009, 05:46 AM	#20
Syeed Ali Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 161	Thanks for all the help guys. Looks like it's the cooler. I used a different thermal compound and it's reduced the temp considerably. Still not as low as it should be though. Having looked at the Akasa cooler, I think the problem is that the copper conducter is not fully flush with the base. I'm going to get another cooler and compare. Will also check the motherboard as well. Attached Thumbnails

November 21st, 2009, 01:58 PM	#24
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Steve, This is for ASUS P6T boards, but can also apply to other X58 boards. The BIOS settings may have different names however. When overclocking, most of us here, editors, have only ONE thing in mind: STABILITY!!! We are not trying to get the highest benchmark scores, even though they are nice, we want to be able to edit and encode reliably, even under long load times with large projects. So what most of us are interested in is what settings in the BIOS can we safely make that allows us to run reliably for very long times, even 24 hours encodes, and still get good (notice, not BEST) performance, without shortening the longevity of our system in any significant way. Overclocking means that you run your system harder than it was designed and approved for. Just as a comparison, when you walk around the block, you will not get into a sweat, but running around the block several times, you may start to sweat, depending on your condition. Same with a PC, so cooling is important. What causes the temperature rise in computers? Simple, the increased wattage required to run at higher speeds in the same way you burn more calories when running instead of walking. This effectively means you have to balance the increased wattage in your PC with the temperatures inside. Somewhat like Louis Armstrong once said: "Everybody has a given number of heartbeats and I'm not going to waste them on jogging". (Obesitas was never a big concern to him. Maybe it should have been.) The i7 CPU is well known for its overclock capability. The 920 entry model has a clock frequency of 2.66 GHZ, which is achieved by a BCLK setting of 133 and a multiplier of 20. 20 x 133 = 2666 MHz or 2.66 GHz. At this standard setting the TDP (Thermal Design Power) is 130 W. When you enable Turbo mode in the BIOS of your mobo, the multiplier can vary between 12 and 21, depending on CPU load, so effectively the CPU clock can vary between 1596 (12 x 133) MHz and 2793 (21 x 133) MHz. The CPU will throttle down to save energy to the lower multiplier when idle and throttle back up when under load. When you experiment with different BCLK (base clock) settings, you will find that the number 172 for BCLK will increase your clock frequency to 2064 (12 x 172) MHz when idle and 3612 (21 x 172) MHz under load. With all settings on AUTO in the BIOS for the different voltages, you will see that the CPU voltage rises to 1.272V (which is well below the Intel maximum of 1.5V for this CPU) and TDP increases to 152 W, up from the standard 130 W. You will also see an increase in CPU temperature and with other components, so you have to watch those carefully, especially if you use the very mediocre stock Intel CPU cooler. You will also notice that the RAM voltage remains constant at 1.5V I have experimented with a lot of different settings, using BCLK at 183, 192, 202 and other settings, but always leaving all voltage regulations on auto to start with, testing with demanding applications like Prime95 and the PassMark system benchmark to test for stability, watching for the voltages and temperatures of CPU and other components. When I found a reasonably stable setting, I increased the memory voltage up to 1.65V to see if that gave improved stability for a longer time. In the end I decided on some very simple standard settings for my system that can hold up very reliably under duress: BCLK at 172, CPU voltage at 1.275V, PCI bridge at 110%, video card at 800 MHz GPU and video memory at 1100 MHz, RAM on auto voltage at 1.5V, but DDR3-Frequency at 1376 MHz (I use DDR3-1333 sticks). In case I am pressed for time I can easily increase my BCLK settings to 180 to further OC my system, if the need arises, or even further, but 180 BCLK is the highest setting I can achieve without raising voltages. Like some doctors say, streching your legs is healthy, but don't overdo it. PS: Real overclockers/tweakers will easily find better settings, but this suffices for a senior hobbyist like me. Last edited by Harm Millaard; November 21st, 2009 at 02:41 PM.

November 22nd, 2009, 09:11 AM	#28
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	I already have, to Win7-64 Pro, fresh install and it is around 10% faster than Vista. It looks more stable and has a smaller footprint. I currently have Win7-64 Pro, CS4 Master Collection, and all my usual accessories and plug-ins installed, MB Looks, SA Color Finesse, Surcode, Pixelan, and the like and it only requires 30 GB of disk space. It sure looks good. You can see the results on PPBM4 home page where you see that with a 5% lower clock speed I still got a 5% better benchmark result. Look for 'Harm's Beast' (Bill invented that name) Attached Images Last edited by Harm Millaard; November 22nd, 2009 at 02:42 PM.

November 20th, 2009, 05:04 PM	#16
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Its not the cooler. Its either a bad thermal sensor on the motherboard or a bad chip. I have read about many X58 boards with thermal sensor issues so contact Gigabyte for help and/or replacement. For that other 10k rpm (I'm assuming a Velociraptor), I would return it or sell it and get an Intel X 25 80GB G2 SSD. I went from 4 74GB Raptors in Raid to the Intel X 25 for the OS and programs and its insane how much faster the SSD is. Booting takes seconds; as soon as you see your desktop, you are ready to go; Photoshop opens in 2 seconds. Plus, no moving parts to break.

November 20th, 2009, 05:36 PM	#17
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	I wasn't aware of those problems, but it makes much more sense than the ridiculous temperature readings the OP is getting.

November 20th, 2009, 11:35 PM	#18
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Unfortunately, I must add my experience tonight with the exact same problem. AME encoded the first video which took 18 minutes and was encoding the 2nd video. I started to play the encoded video and it BSOD'd me with the same page fault error. I am currently encoding the 2nd video and opened CoreTemp .99.5 to check the temps. All 4 cores are hovering at 71 C with 100% CPU load. Harm, could you please use CoreTemp and tell me what you are getting under full load? FYI, I have the i7 920 at stock clock with a Zalman 9500. I just got the Noctua NH-U12P SE1366 in hopes of coming close to Harm's overclock but haven't installed it yet. And Harm, is your i7 920 a revision "D0"?

November 21st, 2009, 05:59 AM	#21
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Syeed, This looks completely normal. Maybe the different cooling paste makes the necessary difference. It is a sizable difference with earlier results. Much improved.

November 21st, 2009, 07:42 AM	#22
Syeed Ali Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 161	Just encoded a video now and no crash. So looks like it's all sorted now. Can't believe I wasted so much time trying to fix it just for it to be the thermal stuff. The one that didn't work is the "Akasa thermal adhesive tape". Avoid at all cost!!! Once again thanks for all your help guys.

November 21st, 2009, 12:58 PM	#23
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Wow, I didn't think the thermal paste/tape could make that much of a difference. I have always used Arctic Thermal compound and remember reading that it only provides about a 5 C degree reduction under load compared to generic paste. In my own testing when I first got an Intel Q6600 and Zalman 9500, I tried different setups with the fans to get the lowest temp possible. I noticed that it takes a day or two for the thermal paste to 'settle' in and provide maximum conductivity. Harm, my revision is the most recent but your temps aren't much higher than mine. You are using the big Noctua, right? (I posted the model I have yet to install but it should be the same as ours) One more thing: any chance you have or could write an overclock guide for the i7? I am used to OC'ing the prior 775 chips but there is so much new and different with the i7's settings. Thanks

November 21st, 2009, 07:49 PM	#25
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	Harm... it's tremendous to have a resource such as yourself that bridges the significant gap between editor and computer tech. I'm learning a lot from your posts and the varied exchanges here, and elsewhere... namely your opinions on RAID. Good stuff.

November 22nd, 2009, 06:39 AM	#26
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Marty, Thanks for the compliment. You may have seen this link before and if that is the case my apologies, but if not, it may be interesting to you: Adobe Forums: How to get the best from a PC? Some... Nearly 50,000 reads on the three articles show that some people found it interesting. Maybe the same applies to you.

December 15th, 2009, 11:10 PM	#29
Jason McDonald Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Japan Posts: 295	The maximum operating temperature of an AMD processor is determined by the processor's Ordering Part Number (OPN). The OPN is located on the top of the processor. Example: A X1800 D M S 3 C The temperature is indicated by the third character from the right in the OPN and is denoted by an S, T or V character. Current data for the AMD AthlonTM XP processor identifies the maximum operating temperature as: V=85ºC, T= 90ºC, S = 95ºC.

January 9th, 2010, 09:05 AM	#30
Syeed Ali Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: London Posts: 161	Well, everything is working fine since I sorted out the cooling. Thanks again for the help.