advantage of Premiere CS4 over Vegas? at DVinfo.net

Jonathan Grant · July 3rd, 2009, 01:36 AM

I asked a similar question in another forum, but I think I should have asked it here instead. For HD editing, what advantages and disadvantages does CS4 have over the latest Vegas? I'm just interested in editing TV ads (so titles are important).

Roger Shealy · July 4th, 2009, 11:05 AM

Great question. I'm using Vegas, but can't get it to behave with Canon 24F and it doesn't render to .mp4 / H.264 very well. I'm flirting with learning Premiere since I already have CS4. Aside from these two issues, for editing alone I don't see what advantages it has over Vegas. Vegas is very fast to edit and color correct.

If I start wanting to tie into PhotoShop and After Effects, then it may make a lot of sense. I'll be watching this thread to see what responses you get.

Gary Brun · July 4th, 2009, 01:39 PM

I have both systems.
Vegas and sound editing integration is excellent.
Adobe CS4 is the one I would go for and dynamic link with AfterFx for titles.

Roger Shealy · July 4th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Thanks Gary. Do you find PPro as fast as Vegas once you get used to it? As far as audio, SoundBooth appears to be even more powerful than Vegas's audio. At first glance it appears for editing alone, Vegas gets you 95% of the quality for 50% of the effort. If your productions require AE or PS, PPro as part of a suite starts to walk away from Vegas, even if using Vegas with PS and AE. The question seems to be, is one willing to invest in the sophistication of PPro, AE, and PS to leverage that advantage, or are you just editing and color correcting? My limited experience with AE (and PS for that matter) is they are absolutely incredible programs that require an incredible dedication of time and talent to master. However deep you want to go, there's another 20,000 leagues below you! Which leads me to the following conclusion thus far:

If your work demands PS and AE, why not use PPro to link them together? If you're not using PS or AE in your productions, Vegas is an incredibly effective, efficient, stable piece of software that can produce beautiful, professional results. It's really more of a PhotoShop and AfterEffects issue, isn't it?

Marty Baggen · July 4th, 2009, 11:30 PM

I constantly go back in forth in my mind on this very question.

My current Adobe configuration is CS3. I have CS4 sitting on the shelf awaiting Cineform's full compatibility.

I currently have Vegas 8. I use it as a multitracker for my music production, and love the idea of its lean and stable approach.... but I was turned off by its cartoonish video effects and transition interface and lack of PSD layer compatibility.

Having said that... unless you do a lot of AE work in your Premiere timeline, I have felt that Bridge, while a great feature, was not a huge factor in my day-to-day workflow. Of course, that depends on your particular tasks. The Encore link is pretty handy for some as well.

I am so fed up with the resource gobbling, bug-infested, 3rd party-hostile environment that is Premiere.... that it would take very little for me to bop over to Vegas. I'd say, if I could import Photoshop layers, that would be enough to tip the scale.

Imagine my embarrassment if someone follows this post with a newsflash that Vegas CAN import individual PSD layers......

Roger Shealy · July 5th, 2009, 08:30 PM

Marty,

I don't know how to import PS layers, but you can import .psd files into Vegas. As far as transitions, I rarely use anything but fades, cross fades, and jump cuts, so transitions aren't an issue for me. I also do minimal titling which is good because Vegas's Pro Titler is really tough to use IMO. AE is outstanding for this.

Gary Brun · July 5th, 2009, 10:02 PM

Roger.
Vegas pro 9 64 bit is knocking spots of premiere at the moment regarding speed.

My Premiere system has speeded up a lot more now since I bought the Matrox mxo mini which allows me to view Cineform files in full rez without any system drain.

Roger Shealy · July 6th, 2009, 05:51 AM

[QUOTE=Gary Brun;1167646]Roger.
Vegas pro 9 64 bit is knocking spots of premiere at the moment regarding speed.

Gary,

Wow, you created a lot of questions for me with your brief message. Does this mean you feel Vegas is faster than Premiere to edit? To render? Both?

Also, I've looked at the Matrox and I must admit I don't understand how you use it. Is it something you can use with Vegas? With CS4? How do you use it?

Jonathan Grant · July 6th, 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Baggen

I have CS4 sitting on the shelf awaiting Cineform's full compatibility.

What exactly is meant by this? I'm not familiar with Cineform. I was going to buy the Neowhatever to convert HDV to high quality avi. Is that what you are talking about? If so, I would like to know what issues you are referring to!

Adam Gold · July 6th, 2009, 07:35 PM

Just head over to the Cineform forum and you'll see lots of posts complaining about the Real Time Engine, RT engine or RT playback not working with CS4 yet. Not Cineform's fault. Basically it's an accelerator to make playback faster and smoother and add effects which don't need rendering.

The converter in Neo should work fine and is completed at this point, I believe.

A thorough reading of the posts over there will acquaint you not only with what all the Cineform products do, but more importantly their stellar customer service, which Adobe could learn a thing or two about. While Marty and I and many others are waiting for RT Playback to work, my frustration is (mostly) with Adobe for throwing so many roadblocks in Cineform's way.

Jonathan Grant · July 7th, 2009, 11:46 AM

very thorough explanation, thanks! Is there reason to believe that the problem will be fixed soon? If so, how soon?

Adam Gold · July 8th, 2009, 08:51 PM

Again, all the info is over in the Cineform forum. Basically the only answer is they're working on it and will let us know when it's ready.

Charles W. Hull · July 13th, 2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Grant

I asked a similar question in another forum, but I think I should have asked it here instead. For HD editing, what advantages and disadvantages does CS4 have over the latest Vegas?

I have a reverse question for Vegas users. I use CS4 and Cineform in HD and work mainly with aerials, and the CS4 shadow/highlight filter is fantastic for controlling haze. I would like to point others in my field to Vegas as an easier editing tool to learn than CS4, but I don't know whether Vegas has an equivalent filter to shadow/highlight (or perhaps another good way to control haze). I know this is the Premiere forum, but are there any Vegas users that can help?

Ed Kukla · July 15th, 2009, 05:10 PM

If you use the Sony XDCAM EX cameras, skip on Premiere. It won't display your metadata in the Media Browser.

Roger Shealy · July 16th, 2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles W. Hull

I have a reverse question for Vegas users. I use CS4 and Cineform in HD and work mainly with aerials, and the CS4 shadow/highlight filter is fantastic for controlling haze. I would like to point others in my field to Vegas as an easier editing tool to learn than CS4, but I don't know whether Vegas has an equivalent filter to shadow/highlight (or perhaps another good way to control haze). I know this is the Premiere forum, but are there any Vegas users that can help?

Charles, I have CS4 but haven't dug into it yet. If you can give me a specific example of reducing haze and/or show me how you use it in CS4 perhaps I or someone else can respond to whether we know of something similar in Vegas. Maybe a clip or frame with haze and a clip or frame after adjustment to help us understand the effect you desire.

July 3rd, 2009, 01:36 AM	#1
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	advantage of Premiere CS4 over Vegas? I asked a similar question in another forum, but I think I should have asked it here instead. For HD editing, what advantages and disadvantages does CS4 have over the latest Vegas? I'm just interested in editing TV ads (so titles are important).

July 4th, 2009, 01:39 PM	#3
Gary Brun Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kråkstad Norway. Posts: 229	I have both systems. Vegas and sound editing integration is excellent. Adobe CS4 is the one I would go for and dynamic link with AfterFx for titles. __________________ http://www.mlotv.com

July 5th, 2009, 10:02 PM	#7
Gary Brun Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kråkstad Norway. Posts: 229	Roger. Vegas pro 9 64 bit is knocking spots of premiere at the moment regarding speed. My Premiere system has speeded up a lot more now since I bought the Matrox mxo mini which allows me to view Cineform files in full rez without any system drain. __________________ http://www.mlotv.com

July 4th, 2009, 11:05 AM	#2
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Great question. I'm using Vegas, but can't get it to behave with Canon 24F and it doesn't render to .mp4 / H.264 very well. I'm flirting with learning Premiere since I already have CS4. Aside from these two issues, for editing alone I don't see what advantages it has over Vegas. Vegas is very fast to edit and color correct. If I start wanting to tie into PhotoShop and After Effects, then it may make a lot of sense. I'll be watching this thread to see what responses you get.

July 4th, 2009, 02:13 PM	#4
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Thanks Gary. Do you find PPro as fast as Vegas once you get used to it? As far as audio, SoundBooth appears to be even more powerful than Vegas's audio. At first glance it appears for editing alone, Vegas gets you 95% of the quality for 50% of the effort. If your productions require AE or PS, PPro as part of a suite starts to walk away from Vegas, even if using Vegas with PS and AE. The question seems to be, is one willing to invest in the sophistication of PPro, AE, and PS to leverage that advantage, or are you just editing and color correcting? My limited experience with AE (and PS for that matter) is they are absolutely incredible programs that require an incredible dedication of time and talent to master. However deep you want to go, there's another 20,000 leagues below you! Which leads me to the following conclusion thus far: If your work demands PS and AE, why not use PPro to link them together? If you're not using PS or AE in your productions, Vegas is an incredibly effective, efficient, stable piece of software that can produce beautiful, professional results. It's really more of a PhotoShop and AfterEffects issue, isn't it?

July 4th, 2009, 11:30 PM	#5
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	I constantly go back in forth in my mind on this very question. My current Adobe configuration is CS3. I have CS4 sitting on the shelf awaiting Cineform's full compatibility. I currently have Vegas 8. I use it as a multitracker for my music production, and love the idea of its lean and stable approach.... but I was turned off by its cartoonish video effects and transition interface and lack of PSD layer compatibility. Having said that... unless you do a lot of AE work in your Premiere timeline, I have felt that Bridge, while a great feature, was not a huge factor in my day-to-day workflow. Of course, that depends on your particular tasks. The Encore link is pretty handy for some as well. I am so fed up with the resource gobbling, bug-infested, 3rd party-hostile environment that is Premiere.... that it would take very little for me to bop over to Vegas. I'd say, if I could import Photoshop layers, that would be enough to tip the scale. Imagine my embarrassment if someone follows this post with a newsflash that Vegas CAN import individual PSD layers......

July 5th, 2009, 08:30 PM	#6
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	Marty, I don't know how to import PS layers, but you can import .psd files into Vegas. As far as transitions, I rarely use anything but fades, cross fades, and jump cuts, so transitions aren't an issue for me. I also do minimal titling which is good because Vegas's Pro Titler is really tough to use IMO. AE is outstanding for this.

July 6th, 2009, 05:51 AM	#8
Roger Shealy Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fayetteville, GA Posts: 772	[QUOTE=Gary Brun;1167646]Roger. Vegas pro 9 64 bit is knocking spots of premiere at the moment regarding speed. Gary, Wow, you created a lot of questions for me with your brief message. Does this mean you feel Vegas is faster than Premiere to edit? To render? Both? Also, I've looked at the Matrox and I must admit I don't understand how you use it. Is it something you can use with Vegas? With CS4? How do you use it?

July 6th, 2009, 07:35 PM	#10
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Just head over to the Cineform forum and you'll see lots of posts complaining about the Real Time Engine, RT engine or RT playback not working with CS4 yet. Not Cineform's fault. Basically it's an accelerator to make playback faster and smoother and add effects which don't need rendering. The converter in Neo should work fine and is completed at this point, I believe. A thorough reading of the posts over there will acquaint you not only with what all the Cineform products do, but more importantly their stellar customer service, which Adobe could learn a thing or two about. While Marty and I and many others are waiting for RT Playback to work, my frustration is (mostly) with Adobe for throwing so many roadblocks in Cineform's way.

July 7th, 2009, 11:46 AM	#11
Jonathan Grant Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: norman, OK Posts: 111	very thorough explanation, thanks! Is there reason to believe that the problem will be fixed soon? If so, how soon?

July 8th, 2009, 08:51 PM	#12
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Again, all the info is over in the Cineform forum. Basically the only answer is they're working on it and will let us know when it's ready.

July 15th, 2009, 05:10 PM	#14
Ed Kukla Major Player Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: All over, USA Posts: 512	If you use the Sony XDCAM EX cameras, skip on Premiere. It won't display your metadata in the Media Browser.