Premiere Pro over Studio8?

[Law Tyler]

Hi,

I am pretty happy with Studio8, despite the bugs. Well, I was able to get around the bugs, let say.

But there is a few things I like to do that cannot do, so I wonder if anybody care to "brag" about Premiere Pro to entice me over?

Money is not object, and it looks like there is going to be pertty good SmartSound facilities with the new SS plugin. I downloaded the PP tryout, and it is not as overwhelming as Vegas 4.0+DVD, which I wasted $500 on (((#*$(#$ Sonic).

Even figured out the "no sound" PP problem myself.

First thing of course is that I can now lip-sync my video, studio8's "monitor" is so small I cannot do that unless it is a close-up shot.

I like to do is to edit more than one camera. I have 4 3CCD cameras. However I do worry about sync'ing video from different tapes. How do you do that? Do you just make sure the clock on the 4 cameras are in-sync? Hate to have to sync them manually.

Another thing I like to do is simple audio mixing. Like for example why can't anybody make a camera that would simply mix the left right channels into one mono channel on command? That way I don't have to carry a mixer for small projects. Volume adjustment could be done prior to the signal going into the mic input (wireless gain adjustment, maybe), so I don't even need balance adjustment. At the very least, I wish PP would let me do that quick and simple.

My new VX2100 seems to show some sign that it can record 4 channels simultanously, maybe I am wrong. But if it could then I would like to mix those four channels in PP, no need for on-site mixer. Although will be kind of funny totting around a camera with 4 wireless receivers...

Can PP adjust WB? That is one thing I don't like about Studio8, drive me nuts at times.

Once again, I like the feel of PP, especially compare to that ugly monster Vegas, good vibe, might take the dive if somebody can talk me into it.

Thank you. Brag away!

[Glenn Chan]

Well, Vegas can do all the things you describe. I haven't used Adobe Premiere *pro* so I can't tell you how good it is.

I like to do is to edit more than one camera. I have 4 3CCD cameras. However I do worry about sync'ing video from different tapes. How do you do that? Do you just make sure the clock on the 4 cameras are in-sync? Hate to have to sync them manually.

Use a flash to sync the cameras. If some of your sources don't have video (i.e. tape, DAT recorders) then you will need to use a clapboard/slate to sync.

My new VX2100 seems to show some sign that it can record 4 channels simultanously, maybe I am wrong. But if it could then I would like to mix those four channels in PP, no need for on-site mixer. Although will be kind of funny totting around a camera with 4 wireless receivers...

It might be that the VX2100 allows you to record 4 channels after the fact. It records 2 in real time, and the other two tracks you can record over later with voice-over. I don't know if you need a VTR that has the dubbing feature to let you "record" 4 channels.

Generally the 4 channels of audio on nearly all cameras is pretty useless. The one exception is the XL1(s), which can actually record 4 channels but at 32khz sampling instead of 48khz (can be a problem if you record music).

Can PP adjust WB? That is one thing I don't like about Studio8, drive me nuts at times.

Many NLEs have a color correction filter with eyedroppers. You click on something that's supposed to be white and the program will white balance for you.

Once again, I like the feel of PP, especially compare to that ugly monster Vegas, good vibe, might take the dive if somebody can talk me into it.

Why do you have Vegas so much? It is very different than other NLEs but if you take the time to learn it right then it's a very powerful NLE.

[Law Tyler]

Yes, I hate Vegas. It just rubbed me the wrong way when it came in -- forcing registration after I shell out $500, frustrating especially when I main computer is off-line and on a Friday night, had to wait till Monday, then realized I could have used it meanwhile any way, not doing the very simple basic thing I hope it would do, etc.

The very BASIC thing I wanted it to do, I figure it is a sound company, is basic sound mixing.

Mix left and right channel into one mono channel.

Every time I click on sound mixer or whatever, it ask for outside plugin, or whatever. I gave up.

Also, I could not get comfortable with the interface as I did with PP, even though Vegas advertised as a PC-native interface and I am a deadly serious PC guy.

$500, I could have buoght PP, STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, tunnelvision. I guess I am going about this the wrong way. Sorry, it's just me.

[Glenn Chan]

You could've just done right click (on audio in timeline) ---> Channels --> Combine. Done.

If you learn how to use Vegas it really isn't bad. Unfortunately learning another NLE will just confuse you but Vegas does make sense.

[Law Tyler]

Thanks. Might try it some time.

Well, actually, I just got it to split the L/R channels into two different DV AVI, great. Now I can edit them in Studio8 with full control.

THANKS AGAIN.

Looking at a dumb guy with a $500 mixer.

I am sticking to S8 for now because of the built-in SmartSound facility, just so fanstastic. I checked out the plugin for PP, not integrated like S8 at all.

[Edward Troxel]

Law,

Vegas has the best audio tools of ANY NLE available today. Many things can be found by simply right-clicking. As was mentioned, combining, choosing left only, right only, etc... are easily picked with a simple right-click.

Yes, I hate Vegas. It just rubbed me the wrong way when it came in -- forcing registration after I shell out $500, frustrating especially when I main computer is off-line and on a Friday night, had to wait till Monday, then realized I could have used it meanwhile any way, not doing the very simple basic thing I hope it would do, etc.

Yes, Vegas requires a secondary registration. However you COULD have chosen "Register Later" and still used the program over the weekend. In my experience, the "Register from Another Computer" option is very useful and allows quick, internet based, registration. Also, Adobe is headed that direction as well.

The very BASIC thing I wanted it to do, I figure it is a sound company, is basic sound mixing.

Mix left and right channel into one mono channel.

Vegas is a very powerful audio mixer. That one simple task has already been described.

Every time I click on sound mixer or whatever, it ask for outside plugin, or whatever. I gave up.

Take the time to look over the manual. The "sound mixer or whatever" isn't a very good description of what you were clicking. Sounds like you were trying to create additional busses? Look over the audio chapter of the manual.

[Law Tyler]

Thanks Edward, starting to look good.

BTW, does anybody know if we keep re-rendering the DV AVI w/o actually doing anything to the video, i.e. in my case just messing with the audio, if I re-render it 100 times, would the video degrade?

I would think not, and in my experience not, but then again it may be just degrading a little at a time.

Any definitive answer?

[James Nyfeler]

Law -- I used Studio 8 for a while until I switched to Vegas. I got tired of bizarre bugs and searching forums for workarounds to the countless problems that are prevelant in Studio 8. Vegas is certainly more complicated, but I was able to start creating movies right out of the box. I did realize, however, that it was far more powerful than I would use in the sort term.

There is one enormous difference between the two. Vegas works. I don't have to remember to reboot before each render, or halt all other programs before I use my NLE. This is particularly annoying when you have family coming over the next day, and you are in the final stages of a movie that you'd like to show them. I have stayed up on more than one occasion well into the early morning hours trying to get S8 to just do what it is supposed to do.

Your $500 is gone. I'd suggest that you spend some time getting to know Vegas a bit better before scrapping your investment.

Like you, I really liked the SS integration into Studio. I now use Movie Maestro, and it is an acceptable substitute (albiet it adds another step).

[Law Tyler]

Hey thanks.

I am still trying to figure it out. Like how do you adjust the audio levels along the timeline? As in know in S8 you simple click-and-drag the level itself, but in Vegas nothing doing? Is there any quick Vegas commands you know to get me going? Thanks.

[Glenn Chan]

BTW, does anybody know if we keep re-rendering the DV AVI w/o actually doing anything to the video, i.e. in my case just messing with the audio, if I re-render it 100 times, would the video degrade?

I would think not, and in my experience not, but then again it may be just degrading a little at a time.

Any definitive answer?

If your NLE is actually re-encoding the DV over and over again (not copying it), then you will get generation loss. The Vegas DV codec is lossless after the 1st generation (others aren't). Going from 0 to the first generator does the most damage to your image. It happens when your camera records the picture to tape. After that there isn't too much difference. Adam Wilt (check out his DV FAQ) writes that you can't tell the difference between 1st and 2nd generation DV. It isn't something to really worry about unless you are getting into the 10th generation or something.

see some pictures:
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2..._vegasvid3.htm

[Kelvin Kelm]

<<<-- Originally posted by Law Tyler : Hey thanks.

Like how do you adjust the audio levels along the timeline? As in know in S8 you simple click-and-drag the level itself, but in Vegas nothing doing? Is there any quick Vegas commands you know to get me going? Thanks. -->>>

From the Menu use Insert - Audio Envelope - Volume. This adds a line down the middle of the audio track (i.e. the Volume Envelope). Simply double-click on the timeline to add a fixed point (similar to S8). Right-clicking on the Audio Envelope provides many options to experiment with. Good Luck.

[Glenn Chan]

You can just drag the levels on the audio. The bar is hiding at the top of the audio clip on the timeline.

right click --> properties will let you check normalize if you want to boost the volume to the max without digital distortion.

Slides on the left give you more control over volume.

[Edward Troxel]

As long as you do not add any effects or transitions, the video will simply be COPIED - not changed in any way so 100 times would make NO difference.

To freely adjust audio, add a Volume Envelope to the audio track(s). You can also change the master volume of the track, adjust the master project volume, and add busses as needed.

[Yi Fong Yu]

vegas (imho) is TRULY the final cut pro of the PC world. all programs, even mcrosoft word, takes some time to get used to it. ya just gotta get into it. not learning it RIGHT AWAY on 1st try or 100th try is OK. that's part of the fun (well @least it is for me). but hating somn without giving it a serious effort is a bit premature. imagine if the world prejudged microsoft's efforts of windows 1.0, 3.x, 9x, etc cause they were all comfortable on a mac.

[Rob Easler]

Hey Law, this is America. You can hate whatever you want to hate, right or wrong, as long as you don't hurt anybody. Me I hate coffee. Everyone else loves it but I just don't get it. A Starbucks on every corner, people paying big for a bitter beverage, not for me. I like the idea of coffee, the opportunity for water cooler style conversation, and I really need the caffeine cause I get so sleepy but it just tastes terrible to me. Having said that, let me add my voice to the choir about Vegas, since you already own it. I just want to help encourage you to hang in there and keep trying to use Vegas on some projects that aren't urgent. I say the non urgent ones so you can learn the tool without a time constraint which will help you do it with less frustration. I struggled a bit a first with Vegas but then very quickly became a zealot about it. It was so stable compared to Premiere and it works so well. Premiere Pro has made giant leaps now and is a great tool as well but in your situation I wouldn't spend more money when you have a great tool like Vegas. If you work with it and get over the hump I think you will find it is truly great. Most everything you will want to do is there if you search for it. Good Luck and be sure to use the in program help index or manual.