Will I lose my mind with this workflow? at DVinfo.net

Tripp Woelfel · February 13th, 2009, 07:31 PM

Mixing HDV, AVHCD and uprezed DV files in the same project?

Here's why. Shooting racing from multiple angles and locations. Main action cameras are HDV. In-car cameras are SD DV. I'm thinking of mounting a camera on the flag stand for a speed shot. To do this I have to go tapeless since I won't be near the flag stand all night. I really tried to work an OnLocation solution out but it ain't happening.

All my cams are Canon (XH A1, HV10, HV30, ZR900) so I'm thinking of the HG 10. It'll be locked off and left alone for as much as 6 hours.

Last year I shot 60i with everything produced in SD. This year will be HD & SD for BD and DVD respectively so 30p should simplify the workflow. (Still need to check if the HG 10 will even do that.)

BTW: Here's a link one heat race I shot last year if you want it all in context. Mini Stock Heat. Yeah, I know the PAR is wrong but I had to do it in a hurry.

So, does my reach exceed my grasp? Should I make reservations at the happy hotel now? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Tripp Woelfel · February 15th, 2009, 09:49 AM

Bump? Anyone successfully using these formats in a workflow? If so, any tips or tricks you can share?

Battle Vaughan · February 16th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Somewhere I have read, and I have not personally done this, to make separate sequences for each format and then nest them into one overall sequence....what little playing I have done with mixed hdv/sd on PPCS4, the clips seem to work ok when mixed on the same timeline but whatever clips don't match the sequence setup need rendering....

I must admit the nesting seems cumbersome if you're cutting from one source to the other frequently, but I pass it on for whatever value it might be to experiment with ....//Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Michael Wisniewski · February 16th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Personally, I'd convert everything to one common format that's more friendly to the editing process, for example: Cineform, DNxHD, DVCProHD etc.

Tripp Woelfel · February 17th, 2009, 07:56 AM

Thanks for your insights.

Battle... Interesting approach that I expect might have value. I've long since given up trying to understand PP's idiosyncrasies. I just go with what works. As I nest timelines as part of the multi-cam editing process anyway, your approach integrates into my existing workflow.

Michael... My mind was already running in that direction and it seems to make a lot of sense to me. Transcoding AVCHD to DNxHD will reduce the load on the system. I'll do this in an HDV project since three of the cams are in this format and I could end up with four hours of footage from each cam per event. Transcoding that much footage to DNxHD just wouldn't be practical. The in-car SD footage is used sparsely enough that dropping it into the timeline shouldn't be a big deal.

Thanks again for your ideas. I think I can get this to work.

Pete Bauer · February 17th, 2009, 01:07 PM

Tripp, one of the many selling points of CS4 is that projects are format agnostic; you're supposed to be able to mix and match any supported format. AVCHD definitely runs well on it for me. If you're willing to put your oft stated reservations aside and upgrade to CS4, you could do it.

You can also just convert everything to Cineform at capture in CS3 if you don't want to upgrade, as Michael mentioned.

BTW, if you do 30p, not 100% sure but I think your output will have to be sent out to BluRay as PsF (60i), as I seem to recall that 30p isn't part of the BR spec?

Tripp Woelfel · February 17th, 2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

If you're willing to put your oft stated reservations aside and upgrade to CS4, you could do it.

It's that obvious, eh? Sorry.

The truth is that there's no compelling reason for me to part with the cash for the upgrade. Also, I've only had the CS3 system dialed in and wicked stable for the last few months. For now I'm leaving well enough alone.

I'm already planning to transcode to DNxHD. Not to sound like a pikey, but I could either take or leave Cineform.

I'll have to look into the "legality" of 30p for BD. I wasn't aware that there might be an issue with that. Another monkey for my box of wrenches.

Thanks for the heads-up.

February 13th, 2009, 07:31 PM	#1
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Will I lose my mind with this workflow? Mixing HDV, AVHCD and uprezed DV files in the same project? Here's why. Shooting racing from multiple angles and locations. Main action cameras are HDV. In-car cameras are SD DV. I'm thinking of mounting a camera on the flag stand for a speed shot. To do this I have to go tapeless since I won't be near the flag stand all night. I really tried to work an OnLocation solution out but it ain't happening. All my cams are Canon (XH A1, HV10, HV30, ZR900) so I'm thinking of the HG 10. It'll be locked off and left alone for as much as 6 hours. Last year I shot 60i with everything produced in SD. This year will be HD & SD for BD and DVD respectively so 30p should simplify the workflow. (Still need to check if the HG 10 will even do that.) BTW: Here's a link one heat race I shot last year if you want it all in context. Mini Stock Heat. Yeah, I know the PAR is wrong but I had to do it in a hurry. So, does my reach exceed my grasp? Should I make reservations at the happy hotel now? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Last edited by Tripp Woelfel; February 13th, 2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Added link

February 16th, 2009, 06:33 PM	#4
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Personally, I'd convert everything to one common format that's more friendly to the editing process, for example: Cineform, DNxHD, DVCProHD etc. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

February 17th, 2009, 01:07 PM	#6
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Tripp, one of the many selling points of CS4 is that projects are format agnostic; you're supposed to be able to mix and match any supported format. AVCHD definitely runs well on it for me. If you're willing to put your oft stated reservations aside and upgrade to CS4, you could do it. You can also just convert everything to Cineform at capture in CS3 if you don't want to upgrade, as Michael mentioned. BTW, if you do 30p, not 100% sure but I think your output will have to be sent out to BluRay as PsF (60i), as I seem to recall that 30p isn't part of the BR spec? __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

February 15th, 2009, 09:49 AM	#2
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Bump? Anyone successfully using these formats in a workflow? If so, any tips or tricks you can share?

February 16th, 2009, 03:51 PM	#3
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Somewhere I have read, and I have not personally done this, to make separate sequences for each format and then nest them into one overall sequence....what little playing I have done with mixed hdv/sd on PPCS4, the clips seem to work ok when mixed on the same timeline but whatever clips don't match the sequence setup need rendering.... I must admit the nesting seems cumbersome if you're cutting from one source to the other frequently, but I pass it on for whatever value it might be to experiment with ....//Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

February 17th, 2009, 07:56 AM	#5
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Thanks for your insights. Battle... Interesting approach that I expect might have value. I've long since given up trying to understand PP's idiosyncrasies. I just go with what works. As I nest timelines as part of the multi-cam editing process anyway, your approach integrates into my existing workflow. Michael... My mind was already running in that direction and it seems to make a lot of sense to me. Transcoding AVCHD to DNxHD will reduce the load on the system. I'll do this in an HDV project since three of the cams are in this format and I could end up with four hours of footage from each cam per event. Transcoding that much footage to DNxHD just wouldn't be practical. The in-car SD footage is used sparsely enough that dropping it into the timeline shouldn't be a big deal. Thanks again for your ideas. I think I can get this to work.