15 Frames Off-Sync Audio and Video at DVinfo.net

J.J. Kim · December 18th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Hi,
I have been capturing 1 school concert and 1 Town Chamber Holiday Party and they are all getting 15 frames off sync. I tried to capture in 2 cameras (Canon Xh-A1 that I shot with, and HV30 that use as a deck). Both camera pushes audio 15frames behind. They both shot in A1 HDV mode with 60i frame rate.
I am trying to edit on HDV 1080i 60i timeline.
I am using CS3 version of Premiere Pro and I am not sure what's going on.
If there are any more settings you need to know to help me out here, please let me know then I post'em.
My Chamber director really wants them in HD on their website so down converting is not an option here.
Thank you tons ahead.

JJ

Harm Millaard · December 18th, 2008, 03:30 PM

Capturing is a simple transfer of 0's and 1's. Nothing is changed during the transfer. Either the camera did not work correctly, or your system/setup/project is wrong for what you shot. Capturing can not cause a 15 frame out-of-sync. Maybe a dropped frame causes this. Give some more details.

J.J. Kim · December 18th, 2008, 03:37 PM

I was using both XH-A1 and HV30 to capture, so I doubt both cameras have same problem.
The project setting is HDV 1080i 60i and was shot in HDV 1080i 60i. There was no dropped frame throughout the tape.
When I captured some other tapes in DV, nothing ever happened.
I am going to try to capture in DV project as HDV clip to see if same thing happens...

Eric Addison · December 18th, 2008, 09:56 PM

What version of CS3 are you using? Is it updated to version 3.2?

J.J. Kim · December 19th, 2008, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Addison

What version of CS3 are you using? Is it updated to version 3.2?

Yes, I am using 3.2.0 (374) version.
Is there any known bug for this version?
Thanks.

JJ

Harm Millaard · December 19th, 2008, 01:15 PM

Never experienced this problem you are describing. You can try to capture with HDVSplit and see if you still experience this problem.

Eric Addison · December 20th, 2008, 02:55 AM

You could try replacing the ImporterFastMPEG plugin with this one - it was given to me by an Adobe tech to fix a bug in CS3 with the way it handles Canon 24F footage...it may fix your problem as well - but I can't promise anything!

Patrick Myers · December 21st, 2008, 01:51 PM

How long are the segments that you are capturing? Anything over half an hour can cause the audio not to line up correctly.

J.J. Kim · December 21st, 2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Myers

How long are the segments that you are capturing? Anything over half an hour can cause the audio not to line up correctly.

Actual footage is the whole tape, 63 mins, but I tried to capture only 1 minutes and same thing happened... still trying to figure out...

Paul Del Vecchio · December 22nd, 2008, 01:42 PM

I guess if nothing else works you could shift the audio over in the timeline but that's a fix you shouldn't have to do.

I, myself, hate when things don't work properly or as they should so I understand your pain. Kinda crappy problem. I'd love to hear what the solution is if you figure it out!

George Sickler · January 2nd, 2009, 01:20 PM

What you are experienceing is very common, we fight this in our HDV workflow. When a drop frame occurs, the audio goes out of sync during capture usually 15 frames. The I frame seems to be the sync point for the audio, and if the P and B frames are gone, the audio drifts. It is a nightmare in post.

Here is my work around. It is a pain, but it has helped me save time in the long run. We started using HDV Split, (We used to use Scenealyzer) and set the program to stop captureing on a frame drop. I will then simply start capturing again after that point, and know where the drop out is, is a problem, but from there on, the tape captures and audio stays in sync.

If this is what you are experiencing, it sure beats re-syncing and searching for that dropped frame point.

If not...

Have your camera's been serviced? Maybe there is a head clog.

Do you have a Raid you are capturing too? I would test the Hard Drive Speed capture rate.

What kind of tape are you using, are you switching tapes? Stick with one brand, and if you are going with a cheaper brand, don't reuse the tapes - We get more dropouts with used tapes. less than 15% with new tapes.

Hope this helps...

George

Colorado Digital Video

J.J. Kim · January 3rd, 2009, 09:05 PM

thank you very much, George.
Here is my reply for your question,

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Sickler

If not...

Have your camera's been serviced? Maybe there is a head clog.

Do you have a Raid you are capturing too? I would test the Hard Drive Speed capture rate.

What kind of tape are you using, are you switching tapes? Stick with one brand, and if you are going with a cheaper brand, don't reuse the tapes - We get more dropouts with used tapes. less than 15% with new tapes.

Hope this helps...

George

Colorado Digital Video

I always use Panasonic professional 63min tape, always. I have not gotten any service for my cameras, but I tried to capture with 2 different camera and same thing happened, so I am not sure if it's the camera. I am gonna re-create the project as SD for now, cause I don't think my client would want HD version any soon.

Brad Tyrrell · January 4th, 2009, 03:17 PM

Premiere just isn't very good for capturing and doesn't like HDV much. (I end up editing in Premiere with Cineform - much happier)

HDVSplit is great, I haven't tried the stop-on-frame-drop work around though.

What works for me is running clips through MPEGStreamclip (free) and checking "fix timecode breaks".

December 18th, 2008, 12:21 PM	#1
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	15 Frames Off-Sync Audio and Video Hi, I have been capturing 1 school concert and 1 Town Chamber Holiday Party and they are all getting 15 frames off sync. I tried to capture in 2 cameras (Canon Xh-A1 that I shot with, and HV30 that use as a deck). Both camera pushes audio 15frames behind. They both shot in A1 HDV mode with 60i frame rate. I am trying to edit on HDV 1080i 60i timeline. I am using CS3 version of Premiere Pro and I am not sure what's going on. If there are any more settings you need to know to help me out here, please let me know then I post'em. My Chamber director really wants them in HD on their website so down converting is not an option here. Thank you tons ahead. JJ

December 22nd, 2008, 01:42 PM	#10
Paul Del Vecchio Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Syosset, NY Posts: 61	I guess if nothing else works you could shift the audio over in the timeline but that's a fix you shouldn't have to do. I, myself, hate when things don't work properly or as they should so I understand your pain. Kinda crappy problem. I'd love to hear what the solution is if you figure it out! __________________ Triple E Productions - Award Winning Films/Services www.PaulDV.com

January 2nd, 2009, 01:20 PM	#11
George Sickler Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 83	Audio Drop Out - Drop Frame GOP What you are experienceing is very common, we fight this in our HDV workflow. When a drop frame occurs, the audio goes out of sync during capture usually 15 frames. The I frame seems to be the sync point for the audio, and if the P and B frames are gone, the audio drifts. It is a nightmare in post. Here is my work around. It is a pain, but it has helped me save time in the long run. We started using HDV Split, (We used to use Scenealyzer) and set the program to stop captureing on a frame drop. I will then simply start capturing again after that point, and know where the drop out is, is a problem, but from there on, the tape captures and audio stays in sync. If this is what you are experiencing, it sure beats re-syncing and searching for that dropped frame point. If not... Have your camera's been serviced? Maybe there is a head clog. Do you have a Raid you are capturing too? I would test the Hard Drive Speed capture rate. What kind of tape are you using, are you switching tapes? Stick with one brand, and if you are going with a cheaper brand, don't reuse the tapes - We get more dropouts with used tapes. less than 15% with new tapes. Hope this helps... George Colorado Digital Video Last edited by George Sickler; January 2nd, 2009 at 01:21 PM. Reason: additional thoughts

December 18th, 2008, 03:30 PM	#2
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Capturing is a simple transfer of 0's and 1's. Nothing is changed during the transfer. Either the camera did not work correctly, or your system/setup/project is wrong for what you shot. Capturing can not cause a 15 frame out-of-sync. Maybe a dropped frame causes this. Give some more details.

December 18th, 2008, 03:37 PM	#3
J.J. Kim Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 270	I was using both XH-A1 and HV30 to capture, so I doubt both cameras have same problem. The project setting is HDV 1080i 60i and was shot in HDV 1080i 60i. There was no dropped frame throughout the tape. When I captured some other tapes in DV, nothing ever happened. I am going to try to capture in DV project as HDV clip to see if same thing happens...

December 18th, 2008, 09:56 PM	#4
Eric Addison Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 74	What version of CS3 are you using? Is it updated to version 3.2?

December 19th, 2008, 01:15 PM	#6
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Never experienced this problem you are describing. You can try to capture with HDVSplit and see if you still experience this problem.

December 21st, 2008, 01:51 PM	#8
Patrick Myers Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Springfield MO Posts: 38	How long are the segments that you are capturing? Anything over half an hour can cause the audio not to line up correctly.

January 4th, 2009, 03:17 PM	#13
Brad Tyrrell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Morristown, New Jersey Posts: 249	Premiere just isn't very good for capturing and doesn't like HDV much. (I end up editing in Premiere with Cineform - much happier) HDVSplit is great, I haven't tried the stop-on-frame-drop work around though. What works for me is running clips through MPEGStreamclip (free) and checking "fix timecode breaks".