24P Wedding, client hates it...

Mike Gunter · October 16th, 2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.J. Kim

I shot the whole thing in 24P...

Did you remove the pulldown?

That would make a difference, and it is something that you'd want to do on the DVD MPEG2 file.

My best,

Mike

Wes Coughlin · October 16th, 2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Wes, just because a bunch of people with a vested interest say it's ok, doesn't mean it is ESPECIALLY on something as personal as a wedding. Because the VIDEOGRAPHER is happy it's the couple's tough luck? Don't take up corporate work! Or broadcast if that truly is your belief of what is right and wrong.

Slow down there Shaun! Did you read the part where I said he should fix it for the cleint? Lets take a second and read my quote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wes Coughlin

If the client is unhappy with your work then you should make the changes requested

My point I was trying to make was simple, and did not involve the ethical values of right or wrong, but values to of producing a higher quality product. Now I don't know your background or experiences, but you have probably came across an event where you really needed to be the leader and do what you know to get the job done correctly.

I'm just saying this becuase I have also had on more then one occasion where in the past I have let into "mistakes" clients pushed me into, wasting both our time and money, when ultimately the original version was better. And it is not about right or wrong, but using your professional judgment to listen to your clients ideas and let them know your honest opinion of them. Thats all :)

J.J. Kim · October 16th, 2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Gunter

Did you remove the pulldown?

That would make a difference, and it is something that you'd want to do on the DVD MPEG2 file.

My best,

Mike

I burned to MPEG2-DVD file on DV60i Widescreen project and it made the video crisper and less judder... I don't know what's the process of changing that, but it sorta worked, so...
How can I remove the pulldown, Mike? Please help this rookie (on tech side).

Thank you all for helping!

JJ

Wes Coughlin · October 16th, 2008, 06:19 PM

Removing the pulldown is what you probably already did the first time around when you went with 24p.

If you capture it in Premiere using the Canon 24f setting, and then keep your final export at 24fps, then you removed the pulldown the first time. Removing the pulldown is how you go from 30fps to 24fps. The reason why you had to do this was becuase that on miniDV tape you can only record at 30fps. So to kind of "hack" the tape format, 24p cameras record duplicated frames every so many frames to fill in the "gaps" or missing frames. When you capture that footage using the correct method, the editing system removes the "pulldown" or duplicated frames to bring you back from 30fps to a true 24fps.

Eduardo Miguel · October 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM

J.J.,
I just want to chime in and state that I went through the exact same problem you went through -- and yes, I use the Canon XH-A1 as well. The client was unhappy about the shutter and motion blur. But unfortunately I didn't do the camera work, I just produced it- and had to pay my camera guy. So it hurt me to do it, but I did end up charging them. Unfortunately we ended on bad terms.

The moral to my lesson- shoot 60i unless you are specifically asked otherwise (which won't happen).

Warren Kawamoto · October 17th, 2008, 12:01 AM

I once did some test shots in 24p, edited it, then showed it to my wife without saying anything. She hated the look. To her eyes, something was terribly wrong with the picture! 24p is definitely an "acquired" taste and some people might not like it, especially for a once in a lifetime event such as a wedding.

Mike Gunter · October 17th, 2008, 08:00 AM

Hi all,

You guys know more about the A1 than I do. Although we use one for our PBS series, Painting Wild Places, I'm only the producer, and I don't know much about it. But I do teach editing software, Premiere primarily, and there have been some complaints from users about how Premiere has handled the 24p thing in the A1, and there are a few red flags that I see in the postings that don't make sense as they are written.

If the pull down was done, the timeline would be a 24 frame timeline. Earlier versions of Premiere (and I'm unclear of which versions) failed to catch the Canon flags accordingly. I don't know if this is fixed in Premiere 3.2 or not. The Forum at Adobe.com was spotty on this, too. Removing those frames would make a difference, though. The lack of 'smoothness' lies in those frames being repeated.

Making a DVD in 24P is possible, too, once the pull down is completed, and the content is de-interlaced, the Adobe Media Encoder can be invoked, and the frame rate utilized at 23.976 (for NTSC TV standards) with a Progressive Field Order.

This should make a world of difference and shouldn't cost a penny to try out.

My best.

Mike

October 16th, 2008, 06:19 PM	#34
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	Removing the pulldown is what you probably already did the first time around when you went with 24p. If you capture it in Premiere using the Canon 24f setting, and then keep your final export at 24fps, then you removed the pulldown the first time. Removing the pulldown is how you go from 30fps to 24fps. The reason why you had to do this was becuase that on miniDV tape you can only record at 30fps. So to kind of "hack" the tape format, 24p cameras record duplicated frames every so many frames to fill in the "gaps" or missing frames. When you capture that footage using the correct method, the editing system removes the "pulldown" or duplicated frames to bring you back from 30fps to a true 24fps. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

October 17th, 2008, 08:00 AM	#37
Mike Gunter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalispell, Montana Posts: 164	Hi all, You guys know more about the A1 than I do. Although we use one for our PBS series, Painting Wild Places, I'm only the producer, and I don't know much about it. But I do teach editing software, Premiere primarily, and there have been some complaints from users about how Premiere has handled the 24p thing in the A1, and there are a few red flags that I see in the postings that don't make sense as they are written. If the pull down was done, the timeline would be a 24 frame timeline. Earlier versions of Premiere (and I'm unclear of which versions) failed to catch the Canon flags accordingly. I don't know if this is fixed in Premiere 3.2 or not. The Forum at Adobe.com was spotty on this, too. Removing those frames would make a difference, though. The lack of 'smoothness' lies in those frames being repeated. Making a DVD in 24P is possible, too, once the pull down is completed, and the content is de-interlaced, the Adobe Media Encoder can be invoked, and the frame rate utilized at 23.976 (for NTSC TV standards) with a Progressive Field Order. This should make a world of difference and shouldn't cost a penny to try out. My best. Mike Attached Thumbnails __________________ Mike Gunter VideoTidbits.com Last edited by Mike Gunter; October 17th, 2008 at 08:33 AM.

October 16th, 2008, 07:30 PM	#35
Eduardo Miguel Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Waukegan, Illinois Posts: 27	J.J., I just want to chime in and state that I went through the exact same problem you went through -- and yes, I use the Canon XH-A1 as well. The client was unhappy about the shutter and motion blur. But unfortunately I didn't do the camera work, I just produced it- and had to pay my camera guy. So it hurt me to do it, but I did end up charging them. Unfortunately we ended on bad terms. The moral to my lesson- shoot 60i unless you are specifically asked otherwise (which won't happen).

October 17th, 2008, 12:01 AM	#36
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	I once did some test shots in 24p, edited it, then showed it to my wife without saying anything. She hated the look. To her eyes, something was terribly wrong with the picture! 24p is definitely an "acquired" taste and some people might not like it, especially for a once in a lifetime event such as a wedding.