Trouble with 24P at DVinfo.net

Sterling Youngman · January 10th, 2008, 07:26 PM

Folks,

I have 24P 1920x1080 footage that plays back in Windows Media Player, but in Premiere it is out of sync.

This footage was captured using a Canon HV20 in 24P mode, through a Blackmagic Intensity card. It then had a 3:2 pulldown down in After Effects and saved as Blackmagic Mjpeg file.

It looks amazing and is in sync when played in Windows Media Player, but in Premiere, it is out of sync.

There is no BlackMagic preset for this format so, I created a custom 1920x1080 24P project.

Blackmagic has no idea what is wrong as they have never tried editing at 1920x1080 24P, and they think I need to call Adobe. We all know that won't get anywhere.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Sterling

Chris Barcellos · January 10th, 2008, 07:36 PM

Are you saying it is out of sync rending out of Premiere, or is it just in Preview ? Which version of Premiere ?

Sterling Youngman · January 10th, 2008, 07:52 PM

Good question.

It's out of sync in the preview monitor, and enought o make it difficult to edit. I hadn't thought to render it out to see the results.

-Sterling

Chris Barcellos · January 10th, 2008, 08:03 PM

If you are previewing at max rez and maz size, you may be seeing Premiere struggling with the synching it all for preview preview in real time. You didn't say which version of Premiere you are running. In Pro 2 I can select draft mode in the preview monitor output selector located on the preview monitor window, third Icon to the right of the toggle controls.

Sterling Youngman · January 10th, 2008, 08:05 PM

I'm using CS3, and I'm on an 8 core system with 10 drives at RAID 50. This is enough to support two streams of uncompressed 10bit HD footage.

It should be working. I can't remember what gfx card is in there, but it's fast enough.

Sterling Youngman · January 11th, 2008, 11:41 AM

update:

I don't know how I missed this, but Blackmagic DOES have a 1920x1080 23.9966PsF preset, but my footage still plays out of sync in the preview window.

However, I did render out a clip, and it played back in sync, in Wnidows Media Player, so the problem is just a lag of some sort in the Premiere Preview window.

Thoughts?

-Sterling

Sterling Youngman · January 11th, 2008, 12:12 PM

one more thing,

I did try Draft mode for the preview window, but it didn't make a lick of difference.

-Sterling

Mike McCarthy · January 11th, 2008, 12:26 PM

You should be editing at 23.976 in Premiere. The Intensity may not support that frame rate, but their professional level products obviously do. Try Native Premiere Desktop mode at that resolution and frame rate.

Robert Kennedy · January 12th, 2008, 12:12 AM

Hello,

Finally I have someone to help me troubleshoot this. I have been capturing 24p footage with my HV20 and my Intensity Pro. I also reverse the pulldown in After Effects (and have tried vDub successfully as well). I am also playing off of a very fast RAID though I try uncompressed footage in addition to MJPEG. I am using a Quadro FX1500. I have tried timelines in Vegas and Premiere and have determined the following:

In Desktop mode the Premiere timeline is incapable of playing back true 1080 23.976 (aka 24p) footage. All attempts have been riddled with either dropped frames or refresh errors (horizontal line artifacts).

The Vegas timeline can play back 1080p footage if the footage is encoded as Sony YUV. It does not look as good on the desktop preview as it does through windows media player.

The major question: Can anyone confirm flawless 1080/24p playback in either NLE? Does anyone know the correct codec in order to have footage not produce a red render line when editing in Desktop mode?

I have given up on monitoring through the Intensity card due to its inability to render the RGB colorspace. It is a YUV card and only handles 16-235. I have yet to see an output from the Intensity card (from an editing timeline) that isn't way too contrasty.

I have invested a lot of time and resources into building a true 1080/24p all digital workflow and it seems like the non-Avid PC picture editorial programs are the weakest link. I would hate to drop $5k on a new Mac but it's looking like I may have to. Please save me from that.

Thanks,
Robert

January 10th, 2008, 07:26 PM	#1
Sterling Youngman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 62	Trouble with 24P Folks, I have 24P 1920x1080 footage that plays back in Windows Media Player, but in Premiere it is out of sync. This footage was captured using a Canon HV20 in 24P mode, through a Blackmagic Intensity card. It then had a 3:2 pulldown down in After Effects and saved as Blackmagic Mjpeg file. It looks amazing and is in sync when played in Windows Media Player, but in Premiere, it is out of sync. There is no BlackMagic preset for this format so, I created a custom 1920x1080 24P project. Blackmagic has no idea what is wrong as they have never tried editing at 1920x1080 24P, and they think I need to call Adobe. We all know that won't get anywhere. Any thoughts? Cheers, Sterling __________________ When you get to the end of your rope, you either hang or hang on.

January 10th, 2008, 07:36 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Are you saying it is out of sync rending out of Premiere, or is it just in Preview ? Which version of Premiere ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 10th, 2008, 07:52 PM	#3
Sterling Youngman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 62	Good question. It's out of sync in the preview monitor, and enought o make it difficult to edit. I hadn't thought to render it out to see the results. -Sterling __________________ When you get to the end of your rope, you either hang or hang on.

January 10th, 2008, 08:03 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	If you are previewing at max rez and maz size, you may be seeing Premiere struggling with the synching it all for preview preview in real time. You didn't say which version of Premiere you are running. In Pro 2 I can select draft mode in the preview monitor output selector located on the preview monitor window, third Icon to the right of the toggle controls. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 10th, 2008, 08:05 PM	#5
Sterling Youngman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 62	I'm using CS3, and I'm on an 8 core system with 10 drives at RAID 50. This is enough to support two streams of uncompressed 10bit HD footage. It should be working. I can't remember what gfx card is in there, but it's fast enough. __________________ When you get to the end of your rope, you either hang or hang on.

January 11th, 2008, 11:41 AM	#6
Sterling Youngman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 62	update: I don't know how I missed this, but Blackmagic DOES have a 1920x1080 23.9966PsF preset, but my footage still plays out of sync in the preview window. However, I did render out a clip, and it played back in sync, in Wnidows Media Player, so the problem is just a lag of some sort in the Premiere Preview window. Thoughts? -Sterling __________________ When you get to the end of your rope, you either hang or hang on.

January 11th, 2008, 12:12 PM	#7
Sterling Youngman Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Woodland Hills, CA Posts: 62	one more thing, I did try Draft mode for the preview window, but it didn't make a lick of difference. -Sterling __________________ When you get to the end of your rope, you either hang or hang on.

January 11th, 2008, 12:26 PM	#8
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	You should be editing at 23.976 in Premiere. The Intensity may not support that frame rate, but their professional level products obviously do. Try Native Premiere Desktop mode at that resolution and frame rate. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

January 12th, 2008, 12:12 AM	#9
Robert Kennedy Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 62	Similar findings - no 1080P for Premiere Hello, Finally I have someone to help me troubleshoot this. I have been capturing 24p footage with my HV20 and my Intensity Pro. I also reverse the pulldown in After Effects (and have tried vDub successfully as well). I am also playing off of a very fast RAID though I try uncompressed footage in addition to MJPEG. I am using a Quadro FX1500. I have tried timelines in Vegas and Premiere and have determined the following: In Desktop mode the Premiere timeline is incapable of playing back true 1080 23.976 (aka 24p) footage. All attempts have been riddled with either dropped frames or refresh errors (horizontal line artifacts). The Vegas timeline can play back 1080p footage if the footage is encoded as Sony YUV. It does not look as good on the desktop preview as it does through windows media player. The major question: Can anyone confirm flawless 1080/24p playback in either NLE? Does anyone know the correct codec in order to have footage not produce a red render line when editing in Desktop mode? I have given up on monitoring through the Intensity card due to its inability to render the RGB colorspace. It is a YUV card and only handles 16-235. I have yet to see an output from the Intensity card (from an editing timeline) that isn't way too contrasty. I have invested a lot of time and resources into building a true 1080/24p all digital workflow and it seems like the non-Avid PC picture editorial programs are the weakest link. I would hate to drop $5k on a new Mac but it's looking like I may have to. Please save me from that. Thanks, Robert