HDV to DVD HIGH QUALITY at DVinfo.net

Marcelo Lima · November 2nd, 2007, 11:09 AM

Hello.

I bought an SONY FX-7, made my first try and edit on PREMIERE CS3. I made an video using HDV source and i got a high quality mpeg2 1440x1080 file. Now i want a mpeg2 dvd 720x480 file but i cant have it. I tryed to export directly to encore dvd but the image got worse.

I´m using adobe media export and trying to export with DVD, but the image is not so great.. Its like an low quality preview with can be seen in lines etc...(see example)

Overall the image its good but this is buggin me... How can i export a high quality dvd standart file?

Thank You

The example.
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7/dvihs0.jpg

Carl Middleton · November 2nd, 2007, 11:12 AM

This will frighten you... but a quick way I've found is to drop an m2t directly into Nero. It's a consumer product, but the downres I found to be MUCH better than Premiere/AME.

Carl

Adam Gold · November 2nd, 2007, 01:25 PM

That's exactly what I do. Glad to see I'm not the only one...

Marcelo Lima · November 2nd, 2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Middleton

This will frighten you... but a quick way I've found is to drop an m2t directly into Nero. It's a consumer product, but the downres I found to be MUCH better than Premiere/AME.

Carl

I render to mpeg 1440x1080 and import on nero and let him convert to dvd ntsc?? I will try

Mike McCarthy · November 2nd, 2007, 03:06 PM

If you have AfterEffects, that will work well too, but might take a bit longer. After Effects will also correctly re-render interlacing when going from 1080i to 480i, which should significantly improve the quality of interlaced clips.
Ensure your HDV clip is interpreted as upper field first (CTRL+F) and then Set Field Renderer to Lower Field First in the render que settings.

Marcelo Lima · November 2nd, 2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Middleton

This will frighten you... but a quick way I've found is to drop an m2t directly into Nero. It's a consumer product, but the downres I found to be MUCH better than Premiere/AME.

Carl

I imported on NERO and he gave me high quality file.. Great!!

the next challenge is do the same with Blackmagic intensity pro MJPEG video...

Thank you all for help me...

Carl Middleton · November 2nd, 2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcelo Lima

I imported on NERO and he gave me high quality file.. Great!!

the next challenge is do the same with Blackmagic intensity pro MJPEG video...

Thank you all for help me...

Freaky, isn't it? :) If I remember right, under advanced settings there's some basic tweaks you can possibly do, make sure it's 2 pass VBR, etc, to really get the best quality. But all in all, Nero amazed me with the fact it performs a downconvert to SD in the same time as Premiere, and with such a quality improvement. Adobe needs to talk to Nero and find out why they're so much better at something that Premiere should really excel at.

Carl

K.C. Luke · November 2nd, 2007, 06:57 PM

Note:
Don't use adobe media export with DVD. Only export with correct setting mpg2 file or m2t. Bring direct into Encore and let encore do the job.

Marcelo Lima · November 3rd, 2007, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.C. Luke

Note:
Don't use adobe media export with DVD. Only export with correct setting mpg2 file or m2t. Bring direct into Encore and let encore do the job.

Before tryed to export my HDV timeline to dvd using adobe media export, i tryed send directly to Adobe Encore DVD CS3, but the results was worse...

[]´s

Dan Wilder · November 5th, 2007, 11:51 AM

Like Mike, I use After Effects and get fantastic results. I load a clip into a HDV comp and then drop that comp into a DV comp and scale it to 45%. I render the DV comp out to an intermediate lossless codec and use Encore to encode to MPEG2. Although it takes extra time and intermediate disk space, the results are clearly superior to any other method I've tried. The SD footage really looks like it came from a higher res source.

I'm not sure why Adobe can't put the same scaling code in Premiere that they have in After Effects. Inspite of Adobe claims of improved quality, it still seems that the last place you want to down-rez HDV footage is in the Adobe Media Encoder. But even when I've tried frame-serving from Premiere to other encoders, the results have not been satisfactory for me.

-Dan

Mike McCarthy · November 5th, 2007, 12:59 PM

Dan, there are two things you can do to speed up that workflow. Instead of making an HDV comp, import the footage directly into the DV size comp and scale to 45%. It will save one step in each frame render, especially if you are interlacing the output. Also, saving directly to MPEG2 in AE has few disadvantages. You can't do 2-Pass VBR, but I have done many tests and seen no significant improvement in 2 Pass. I used to do everything in 2 pass, blindly accepting that it MUST be better, but on closer examiniation, I have not found that to be true. Your uncompressed intermediate file to Encore will have no loss of quality, but the total processing time will be a bit longer.

Dan Wilder · November 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try what you suggest about going directly to the DV-scaled comp. It's my interpretation of the AE documentation that scaling from one comp to another is what triggers the sub-pixel math that makes the results so nice but it sounds like it's not necessary. Setting up the HDV comp itself takes about a second.

I agree with you about the 2-pass VBR. Maybe it's just a characteristic of the Mainconcept encoder but I've never been able to see any real improvement by doing the extra pass. I also agree that doing the intermediate file between AE and Encore adds time but I do like how Encore will adjust things to fit on the media. Unlike Premiere Pro, at least these two apps understand the concept of a processing queue.
-Dan

Mike McCarthy · November 5th, 2007, 02:09 PM

The time savings isn't about how long it takes to create the HDV comp. The render will take much longer as well. Try one clip your way and again my way, there will usually be a measurable difference in processing time. With an HDV comp, AE renders that HDV frame internally, and then renders the DV comp from that rendered frame, as a two step process. In the preferences, try turning on Display render status in the info pane. It will give you an idea as to what parts of the process are taking CPU time.

Denny Gay · November 16th, 2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Wilder

Like Mike, I use After Effects and get fantastic results. I load a clip into a HDV comp and then drop that comp into a DV comp and scale it to 45%. I render the DV comp out to an intermediate lossless codec and use Encore to encode to MPEG2. Although it takes extra time and intermediate disk space, the results are clearly superior to any other method I've tried. The SD footage really looks like it came from a higher res source.

I am interested in trying this. So if i understand correctlly, Should you render an HD project in Premiere, out to 1440x1080. Then import that into AE in a DV comp and scale down to 45%. And from here render from AE to 480,standard def, ???

Thanks in advance. This is something i am looking for

Rick Underwood · November 28th, 2007, 08:07 PM

Hello All,

What verisions of Nero are you using that you obtain such quality outputs. I too am experiancing issue with quality lose through PPro 2.0.

Thanks!

November 2nd, 2007, 11:09 AM	#1
Marcelo Lima Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: BRAZIL Posts: 81	HDV to DVD HIGH QUALITY Hello. I bought an SONY FX-7, made my first try and edit on PREMIERE CS3. I made an video using HDV source and i got a high quality mpeg2 1440x1080 file. Now i want a mpeg2 dvd 720x480 file but i cant have it. I tryed to export directly to encore dvd but the image got worse. I´m using adobe media export and trying to export with DVD, but the image is not so great.. Its like an low quality preview with can be seen in lines etc...(see example) Overall the image its good but this is buggin me... How can i export a high quality dvd standart file? Thank You The example. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7/dvihs0.jpg Last edited by Marcelo Lima; November 2nd, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Fix the URL

November 2nd, 2007, 03:06 PM	#5
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	If you have AfterEffects, that will work well too, but might take a bit longer. After Effects will also correctly re-render interlacing when going from 1080i to 480i, which should significantly improve the quality of interlaced clips. Ensure your HDV clip is interpreted as upper field first (CTRL+F) and then Set Field Renderer to Lower Field First in the render que settings. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

November 2nd, 2007, 06:57 PM	#8
K.C. Luke Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 173	Note: Don't use adobe media export with DVD. Only export with correct setting mpg2 file or m2t. Bring direct into Encore and let encore do the job. __________________ Edit on Adobe Creative Suite Production Premium CS5 Mac 64BIT

November 5th, 2007, 12:59 PM	#11
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	Dan, there are two things you can do to speed up that workflow. Instead of making an HDV comp, import the footage directly into the DV size comp and scale to 45%. It will save one step in each frame render, especially if you are interlacing the output. Also, saving directly to MPEG2 in AE has few disadvantages. You can't do 2-Pass VBR, but I have done many tests and seen no significant improvement in 2 Pass. I used to do everything in 2 pass, blindly accepting that it MUST be better, but on closer examiniation, I have not found that to be true. Your uncompressed intermediate file to Encore will have no loss of quality, but the total processing time will be a bit longer. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

November 5th, 2007, 02:09 PM	#13
Mike McCarthy Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 517	The time savings isn't about how long it takes to create the HDV comp. The render will take much longer as well. Try one clip your way and again my way, there will usually be a measurable difference in processing time. With an HDV comp, AE renders that HDV frame internally, and then renders the DV comp from that rendered frame, as a two step process. In the preferences, try turning on Display render status in the info pane. It will give you an idea as to what parts of the process are taking CPU time. __________________ For more information on these topics, check out my tech website at www.hd4pc.com

November 2nd, 2007, 11:12 AM	#2
Carl Middleton Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL Posts: 562	This will frighten you... but a quick way I've found is to drop an m2t directly into Nero. It's a consumer product, but the downres I found to be MUCH better than Premiere/AME. Carl

November 2nd, 2007, 01:25 PM	#3
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	That's exactly what I do. Glad to see I'm not the only one...

November 5th, 2007, 11:51 AM	#10
Dan Wilder Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 29	Like Mike, I use After Effects and get fantastic results. I load a clip into a HDV comp and then drop that comp into a DV comp and scale it to 45%. I render the DV comp out to an intermediate lossless codec and use Encore to encode to MPEG2. Although it takes extra time and intermediate disk space, the results are clearly superior to any other method I've tried. The SD footage really looks like it came from a higher res source. I'm not sure why Adobe can't put the same scaling code in Premiere that they have in After Effects. Inspite of Adobe claims of improved quality, it still seems that the last place you want to down-rez HDV footage is in the Adobe Media Encoder. But even when I've tried frame-serving from Premiere to other encoders, the results have not been satisfactory for me. -Dan

November 5th, 2007, 01:25 PM	#12
Dan Wilder Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 29	Hi Mike, Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try what you suggest about going directly to the DV-scaled comp. It's my interpretation of the AE documentation that scaling from one comp to another is what triggers the sub-pixel math that makes the results so nice but it sounds like it's not necessary. Setting up the HDV comp itself takes about a second. I agree with you about the 2-pass VBR. Maybe it's just a characteristic of the Mainconcept encoder but I've never been able to see any real improvement by doing the extra pass. I also agree that doing the intermediate file between AE and Encore adds time but I do like how Encore will adjust things to fit on the media. Unlike Premiere Pro, at least these two apps understand the concept of a processing queue. -Dan

November 28th, 2007, 08:07 PM	#15
Rick Underwood New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Suffolk , NY Posts: 16	What version of Nero Hello All, What verisions of Nero are you using that you obtain such quality outputs. I too am experiancing issue with quality lose through PPro 2.0. Thanks!