Direction of camerawork

Charles Papert · October 10th, 2005, 03:15 AM

Tim,

Great answer.

Going back a few posts to James' questions: the one-man jib guys I see use the joystick. I'm not a joystick man myself, never really had to use them so I haven't gotten them down, so I use the wheels.

By 'dance floor' I meant sheets of birch toppeed with luan or more commonly these days, sheets of a black plastic material (I forgot the name). I have seen those aluminum frames in use but not that often, they are a good idea though.

Leigh Wanstead · October 10th, 2005, 12:40 PM

Hi Tim,

That is a very clear answer.

Thanks

Regards
Leigh

Kevin Red · October 10th, 2005, 03:15 PM

Don't get me wrong Charles, seeing the Bourne Supremacy in the theatre almost made me sick, (and Im not very sensitive to shaky cameras) its very easy to over do it. I don't think jerky camera adds to action, maybe it adds to the mood, but I just think tripod shots feel a little to "clamped down" sometimes.
On the other hand, alot of steady shots look very good too.

Karl Heiner · October 10th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Red

Don't get me wrong Charles, seeing the Bourne Supremacy in the theatre almost made me sick, (and Im not very sensitive to shaky cameras) its very easy to over do it. I don't think jerky camera adds to action, maybe it adds to the mood, but I just think tripod shots feel a little to "clamped down" sometimes.
On the other hand, alot of steady shots look very good too.

hello kevin,

i second this

greetings

James Emory · October 10th, 2005, 10:00 PM

Hey Charles. Have you heard of this handy little addition to the Jimmy Jib line up? It has been available for about 3 years now. For those moves where the joystick or powerpod (wheels) aren't getting it, this should give you the same type of feel as when on sticks. My only concern was latency but Jim said that it was just as sensitive as the stick and wheels. It simply replaces the stick or wheels and interfaces with existing electronics for remote head control.

Pan Arm Controller
http://www.jimmyjib.com/accessories....chor-Pan-35882

Kevin Red · October 11th, 2005, 09:06 AM

Hello Karl, glad to hear it.

Charles Papert · October 11th, 2005, 10:49 AM

James:

I've tested panbars here and there, they are a cool concept. I'm perfectly happy sticking to the wheels whenever possible, the problem with the Jimmy Jib wheels last I tried them (which was on a shoot about 6 years ago) was that they weren't especially responsive, in fact they were downright awful--the owner of the system admitted as much. If you panned too slowly, they wouldn't respond. Made me a bit crazy. Hopefully they have been revamped with a digital interface by now.

I own this system which has fantastic response and is able to interface with certain digital heads, but I don't think anyone's got one working with a Jimmy Jib yet.

James Emory · October 11th, 2005, 11:48 AM

That is bad ass! Do you have the software package as well? How much does that system go for? I didn't see any prices. How does that 3 axis tool work?

Charles Papert · October 11th, 2005, 04:00 PM

I don't have the PC link for it; I will admit to being a dyed-in-the-wool Mac guy and I don't have need for the PC platform for other reasons so I have avoided going there. I don't end up using the repeatable function all that much. I've actually had the Hot Gears guys build me a dongle to sync their system up with my Preston FIZ remote lens control system (which has recording capability also) so that I have an effective 5 channel system; pan, tilt, focus, iris and zoom.

The console, motors and basic accessories (no head, you supply that) goes for somewhere in the $30K's. The Lambda is the best head as it has no tilt restrictions; it's normally $8K but modified and motorized by Hot Gears adds another $20K. Pricey stuff...!

By 3-axis tool I guess you mean the pan bar? Works well, similar to the Jimmy Jib version.

James Emory · October 11th, 2005, 05:44 PM

Well, it doesn't have a straight pan arm, just that half circle-like bar. So I can't picture how it works.

Charles Papert · October 11th, 2005, 05:51 PM

If I remember correctly, you hold it like a steering wheel, tilt it up and down and side to side for tilt and pan, and rotate it for roll. It's been a while, though, I might have that wrong.

Dan Selakovich · October 15th, 2005, 09:36 AM

First: ditto Charles to everything! Especially the Bourne Sup.! Good lord! After loving the Bourne Id. I was PISSED at the style of the second one.

If I might climb back to the original question. After working in Principle photography, I moved into editing where I stayed for more than 15 years. I think the whole steadicam thing will probably mimic the move from film to the Avid. When pictures were edited on film, I was asked by producers: "what have you done and who have you worked with?" When the Avid came in, producers asked "Which Avid do you own". They could care less about whether I was a good editor or not, they just wanted a deal on the equipment. Now that digital editing has been around awhile, it is finally going back to whether one can actually do the job or not. I think DV and low budget film is doing the same thing with a steadicam. "Do you own a steadicam?" seems to be more important a question than "Are you a good operator?". When I took the avid class, much to my shock, I was the only professional editor in it. The rest thought if they learned the equipment, they could call themselves editors. I think the same is true for the steadicam. Peolple just don't realize the years of work that goes into the craft and art of it. "If I buy one, that makes me an operator, right?" No. It doesn't.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

October 10th, 2005, 03:15 AM	#16
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Tim, Great answer. Going back a few posts to James' questions: the one-man jib guys I see use the joystick. I'm not a joystick man myself, never really had to use them so I haven't gotten them down, so I use the wheels. By 'dance floor' I meant sheets of birch toppeed with luan or more commonly these days, sheets of a black plastic material (I forgot the name). I have seen those aluminum frames in use but not that often, they are a good idea though. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 10th, 2005, 03:15 PM	#18
Kevin Red Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 103	Don't get me wrong Charles, seeing the Bourne Supremacy in the theatre almost made me sick, (and Im not very sensitive to shaky cameras) its very easy to over do it. I don't think jerky camera adds to action, maybe it adds to the mood, but I just think tripod shots feel a little to "clamped down" sometimes. On the other hand, alot of steady shots look very good too. __________________ AMD Athalon 2800 (2.08ghz) running Windows XP sp2 1GB of RAM Vegas 6.0 NLE 300+ GB hard drive space running SATA RAID 0 With an NVIDEA Geforce FX 5600XT http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.php?searchid=149990

October 10th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#20
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Pan Arm Controller for remote heads Hey Charles. Have you heard of this handy little addition to the Jimmy Jib line up? It has been available for about 3 years now. For those moves where the joystick or powerpod (wheels) aren't getting it, this should give you the same type of feel as when on sticks. My only concern was latency but Jim said that it was just as sensitive as the stick and wheels. It simply replaces the stick or wheels and interfaces with existing electronics for remote head control. Pan Arm Controller http://www.jimmyjib.com/accessories....chor-Pan-35882

October 11th, 2005, 09:06 AM	#21
Kevin Red Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 103	Hello Karl, glad to hear it. __________________ AMD Athalon 2800 (2.08ghz) running Windows XP sp2 1GB of RAM Vegas 6.0 NLE 300+ GB hard drive space running SATA RAID 0 With an NVIDEA Geforce FX 5600XT http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/search.php?searchid=149990

October 11th, 2005, 10:49 AM	#22
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	James: I've tested panbars here and there, they are a cool concept. I'm perfectly happy sticking to the wheels whenever possible, the problem with the Jimmy Jib wheels last I tried them (which was on a shoot about 6 years ago) was that they weren't especially responsive, in fact they were downright awful--the owner of the system admitted as much. If you panned too slowly, they wouldn't respond. Made me a bit crazy. Hopefully they have been revamped with a digital interface by now. I own this system which has fantastic response and is able to interface with certain digital heads, but I don't think anyone's got one working with a Jimmy Jib yet. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 10th, 2005, 12:40 PM	#17
Leigh Wanstead Trustee Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NZ Posts: 1,276	Hi Tim, That is a very clear answer. Thanks Regards Leigh

October 11th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#23
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	That is bad ass! Do you have the software package as well? How much does that system go for? I didn't see any prices. How does that 3 axis tool work?

October 11th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#24
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I don't have the PC link for it; I will admit to being a dyed-in-the-wool Mac guy and I don't have need for the PC platform for other reasons so I have avoided going there. I don't end up using the repeatable function all that much. I've actually had the Hot Gears guys build me a dongle to sync their system up with my Preston FIZ remote lens control system (which has recording capability also) so that I have an effective 5 channel system; pan, tilt, focus, iris and zoom. The console, motors and basic accessories (no head, you supply that) goes for somewhere in the $30K's. The Lambda is the best head as it has no tilt restrictions; it's normally $8K but modified and motorized by Hot Gears adds another $20K. Pricey stuff...! By 3-axis tool I guess you mean the pan bar? Works well, similar to the Jimmy Jib version. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 11th, 2005, 05:44 PM	#25
James Emory Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1,892	Well, it doesn't have a straight pan arm, just that half circle-like bar. So I can't picture how it works.

October 11th, 2005, 05:51 PM	#26
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	If I remember correctly, you hold it like a steering wheel, tilt it up and down and side to side for tilt and pan, and rotate it for roll. It's been a while, though, I might have that wrong. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 15th, 2005, 09:36 AM	#27
Dan Selakovich Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 220	First: ditto Charles to everything! Especially the Bourne Sup.! Good lord! After loving the Bourne Id. I was PISSED at the style of the second one. If I might climb back to the original question. After working in Principle photography, I moved into editing where I stayed for more than 15 years. I think the whole steadicam thing will probably mimic the move from film to the Avid. When pictures were edited on film, I was asked by producers: "what have you done and who have you worked with?" When the Avid came in, producers asked "Which Avid do you own". They could care less about whether I was a good editor or not, they just wanted a deal on the equipment. Now that digital editing has been around awhile, it is finally going back to whether one can actually do the job or not. I think DV and low budget film is doing the same thing with a steadicam. "Do you own a steadicam?" seems to be more important a question than "Are you a good operator?". When I took the avid class, much to my shock, I was the only professional editor in it. The rest thought if they learned the equipment, they could call themselves editors. I think the same is true for the steadicam. Peolple just don't realize the years of work that goes into the craft and art of it. "If I buy one, that makes me an operator, right?" No. It doesn't. Dan www.DVcameraRigs.com