RED One for 3D at DVinfo.net

Mike Tesh · April 25th, 2006, 08:28 PM

I was reading the great article at HDforindies.com about James Cameron's NAB speech on digital 3D cinema. It got me thinking he might be right. This might be the time 3D really takes off and is more then just a gimmick. The technology is there. It would certainly give people a reason to go back to the theater.

I could see this happening slowly over the next ten years. It's already happening in small amounts.

So my questions is, RED is supposed to be a camera that will not go obsolete for a long while. So with that said will it support 3D capture?

I remember years ago seeing a prototype lens from Canon for the XL1. It was a 3D lens that contained some type of shutter inside to allow it to shoot 3D onto a single sensor. Perhaps RED will be able to pull off the same type of thinsg with a few specialty lenses? I don't exactly know how that works but I would think that if red can shoot 60fps it could pull off stereo vision at 24-30fps. 2x24fps or 2x30fps or even 2x60fps at 720p resolution.

I don't know about everyone else but I don't want to be the one to shoot a silent film when the era of the talkies is just 5-10 years away. I think we all want our films to be as future proof as our cameras.

Here is that article:
http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/04/n...-day-two#links

Keith Wakeham · April 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM

With the scalability of RED I think its safe to say that their will be a way to sync cameras and if you can do that your practically done for a two camera stereoscopic setup. As for the stereoscopic in one camera, i don't have a clue, thats more of an optics thing i think.

Although a shutter setup is completely possible I figure it would have to be synced very well to the electronics and the mechanics would have to be top notch. I suspect a device like this would be externally sync'd off the outputs so something like that could work without any modifications to the camera, just with a special lens or lens adapter.

Serge Victorovich · April 26th, 2006, 07:13 AM

Canon 3D zoom lens for XL1/XL1S DV camcorder was presented in 2000.
If RED able to shoot 2K and 720p at 120fps just need adapter similar to Wasol 3D58 LenSys®:
http://www.wasol.co.kr/product.htm

Brian Drysdale · April 26th, 2006, 07:50 AM

They've been using the CCD optical blocks from two Sony F950s to make the HD cameras that have been used on James Camerons 3D films. Assuming you can rig two of the RED sensor modules the correct distances apart, there's no reason why you couldn't base a 3D camera around it.

Serge Victorovich · April 26th, 2006, 10:37 AM

Correct distances between of two RED cam must be 65mm for shooting 3D.
It is necessary that head of the camera was disconnected on example of the SI-1920HDVR.

Joel Aaron · April 26th, 2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Tesh

It would certainly give people a reason to go back to the theater.

I guess my question would be "Why do I care if anyone goes back to the theater?"

The theater is where the "Industry" rules. And iTunes, Google Video etc. will be where indies have more of a chance.

Joseph Aurili · August 27th, 2006, 06:24 PM

What I would like to see some day soon is an optional sensor on the camera that would grab 3D depth data as well as pixel data. I think that would be awesome for compositing layers of video with special software. Say, having a green screened actor walk behind some sparse trees. I am sure it would have many other uses as well. I'm sure I will not see this any time soon. Just food for thought...

Joe Carney · August 27th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Seems like they could do that with very low power Sonar or Radar and record it with the image data.

Joseph Aurili · August 27th, 2006, 08:32 PM

I have seen low resolution sensors that can do this in the past, but I'm not sure of the frame rate.

Patomakarn Nitanontawat · August 27th, 2006, 10:42 PM

I mean right now, I'm kinda doing it manually for vfx shots. I have a laser meter to quickly map out the distances between the subject, the background and as much other stuff that I can jot down before the AD starts complaining about his schedule. That data helps alot in compositing.

Joe Carney · August 28th, 2006, 06:42 AM

They do distance measuring for cg shots for large productions and use those calcs in various 3d and compositing apps. But having a low power hi rez option directlly recording image and distance data to disk, time synced the same way audio is, would be very cool.

Graeme Nattress · August 28th, 2006, 08:13 AM

Neer seen a Z-Cam in operation - very cool. Seen them at NAB a few times.

Joseph Aurili · August 28th, 2006, 11:10 AM

Having a per pixel based z-depth, the right software could be use to composite a layer at a specific depth from the camera. I'm sure this would be an amazing time saver for this type of work, since you would not need to mask out objects that are in front of the layer. The data could also be used to quickly identify and isolate an object in a frame, such as if you want to pull out a foreground object for placement in another frame. It could also be used instead of a green screen. I want it! ;)

Joseph Aurili · August 28th, 2006, 11:15 AM

Maybe the Z-cam is what I saw before, but I can't find much info on it.

Sam Jankis · August 28th, 2006, 04:36 PM

What's the highest resolution a portable sonar unit can pull off?

I think infrared laser would be the way to go on a z-cam... but wouldn't it be a hazard to the subject's retinas?

April 25th, 2006, 08:28 PM	#1
Mike Tesh Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 253	RED One for 3D I was reading the great article at HDforindies.com about James Cameron's NAB speech on digital 3D cinema. It got me thinking he might be right. This might be the time 3D really takes off and is more then just a gimmick. The technology is there. It would certainly give people a reason to go back to the theater. I could see this happening slowly over the next ten years. It's already happening in small amounts. So my questions is, RED is supposed to be a camera that will not go obsolete for a long while. So with that said will it support 3D capture? I remember years ago seeing a prototype lens from Canon for the XL1. It was a 3D lens that contained some type of shutter inside to allow it to shoot 3D onto a single sensor. Perhaps RED will be able to pull off the same type of thinsg with a few specialty lenses? I don't exactly know how that works but I would think that if red can shoot 60fps it could pull off stereo vision at 24-30fps. 2x24fps or 2x30fps or even 2x60fps at 720p resolution. I don't know about everyone else but I don't want to be the one to shoot a silent film when the era of the talkies is just 5-10 years away. I think we all want our films to be as future proof as our cameras. Here is that article: http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/04/n...-day-two#links __________________ ScapeFilms.com \| My Photography \| IMDB Profile

April 25th, 2006, 09:03 PM	#2
Keith Wakeham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. John's, NL, Canada Posts: 416	With the scalability of RED I think its safe to say that their will be a way to sync cameras and if you can do that your practically done for a two camera stereoscopic setup. As for the stereoscopic in one camera, i don't have a clue, thats more of an optics thing i think. Although a shutter setup is completely possible I figure it would have to be synced very well to the electronics and the mechanics would have to be top notch. I suspect a device like this would be externally sync'd off the outputs so something like that could work without any modifications to the camera, just with a special lens or lens adapter. __________________ www.engr.mun.ca/~wakeham/index.htm

August 27th, 2006, 06:24 PM	#7
Joseph Aurili Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 326	3D sensor What I would like to see some day soon is an optional sensor on the camera that would grab 3D depth data as well as pixel data. I think that would be awesome for compositing layers of video with special software. Say, having a green screened actor walk behind some sparse trees. I am sure it would have many other uses as well. I'm sure I will not see this any time soon. Just food for thought...

August 27th, 2006, 08:08 PM	#8
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Seems like they could do that with very low power Sonar or Radar and record it with the image data. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

August 27th, 2006, 10:42 PM	#10
Patomakarn Nitanontawat Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 97	cool idea I mean right now, I'm kinda doing it manually for vfx shots. I have a laser meter to quickly map out the distances between the subject, the background and as much other stuff that I can jot down before the AD starts complaining about his schedule. That data helps alot in compositing.

April 26th, 2006, 07:13 AM	#3
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Canon 3D zoom lens for XL1/XL1S DV camcorder was presented in 2000. If RED able to shoot 2K and 720p at 120fps just need adapter similar to Wasol 3D58 LenSys®: http://www.wasol.co.kr/product.htm

April 26th, 2006, 07:50 AM	#4
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	They've been using the CCD optical blocks from two Sony F950s to make the HD cameras that have been used on James Camerons 3D films. Assuming you can rig two of the RED sensor modules the correct distances apart, there's no reason why you couldn't base a 3D camera around it.

April 26th, 2006, 10:37 AM	#5
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Correct distances between of two RED cam must be 65mm for shooting 3D. It is necessary that head of the camera was disconnected on example of the SI-1920HDVR.

August 27th, 2006, 08:32 PM	#9
Joseph Aurili Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 326	I have seen low resolution sensors that can do this in the past, but I'm not sure of the frame rate.

August 28th, 2006, 06:42 AM	#11
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	They do distance measuring for cg shots for large productions and use those calcs in various 3d and compositing apps. But having a low power hi rez option directlly recording image and distance data to disk, time synced the same way audio is, would be very cool. __________________ Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!

August 28th, 2006, 08:13 AM	#12
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Neer seen a Z-Cam in operation - very cool. Seen them at NAB a few times. __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

August 28th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#13
Joseph Aurili Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 326	Having a per pixel based z-depth, the right software could be use to composite a layer at a specific depth from the camera. I'm sure this would be an amazing time saver for this type of work, since you would not need to mask out objects that are in front of the layer. The data could also be used to quickly identify and isolate an object in a frame, such as if you want to pull out a foreground object for placement in another frame. It could also be used instead of a green screen. I want it! ;)

August 28th, 2006, 11:15 AM	#14
Joseph Aurili Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 326	Maybe the Z-cam is what I saw before, but I can't find much info on it.

August 28th, 2006, 04:36 PM	#15
Sam Jankis Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Pete, FL Posts: 223	What's the highest resolution a portable sonar unit can pull off? I think infrared laser would be the way to go on a z-cam... but wouldn't it be a hazard to the subject's retinas?